Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!ukma!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!pasteur!anableps.berkeley.edu!korn From: korn@anableps.berkeley.edu (Peter "Arrgh" Korn) Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk Subject: Apple Router [was Re: More Appletalk Phase II] Message-ID: <14838@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 21 Jun 89 06:41:31 GMT References: Sender: news@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU Reply-To: korn@anableps.berkeley.edu (Peter "Arrgh" Korn) Organization: What, me organized??? Lines: 74 In , REWING@TRINCC.BITNET said: > >A final world about Appletalk Internet ROuter. This is a product that can >provide network routing, which runs inthe background on a Macintosh, and >takes about 150K to itself. It runs on anything, Mac Plus and above, >and can simply connect to localtalk networks together (botyh serial ports >support Appletalk with this product), or with a Mac II, can handle routing >to 6 more Ethertalk or Tokentalk networks for a maximum total of 8 possible >networks. It also appears extensible to other types of connections, and >will appear to support any Appletalk connection that appears in the Network >cdev (we had a copy of Shiva's dialin access which the router recognized, >although we haven't tried it yet). It will *not* support DDP/IP routing. >This requires a Kinetics fastpath, Cayman Gatorbox, or comparable product. >The Mac it runs on need not be dedicated, although if the traffic is >high in your workgroup, it is prefered to be dedicated. It can run behind >most other things such as mail products and other things. It will run >behind Appleshare, although right now it is not recommended because there >is a bug in ROuter's statistics printing under Appleshare. If you can >deal without printing Router stats, then you'll be fine. Router will >cost $395. To throw my 2 cents in: I've been playing with the Apple Router for a number of months now; it's an impressive product. I have one up currently routing between two PhoneNet networks, and one Ethernet network, each as it's own zone. It's running on a MacintoshII w/5 Meg of RAM that is also being an AppleShare server. I've noticed no perceptible slowdown in the server, and no dropped packets (over 4 million routed before we brought the machine down to add a few DAs). By it's presence on the wire, our network seems to be AppleTalk Phase II, or at least some portion of it (certainly all the EtherTalk machines), and the Shiva Netmodems are having problems (two 2400 baud ones). Since it hasn't been an announced product yet, and since we haven't used the modems much, I hadn't contacted Shiva yet, but that'll get done soon. I understand from Apple that Router + File Server + Print Server is not a recommended configuration, and that (at least a few months ago) there were a few occasional problems in this setup under very heavy use. I wonder if this is still the case. Reguarding zones: The router & server both claim to be in the Ethernet zone so that file service across the Ethernet is as fast as can be, and any additional delay caused by the Router routing PhoneNet packets internally will be negligable next to the slower speed of PhoneNet. While I haven't checked carefully, I'm fairly sure that the Router doesn't actually broadcast packets that are destined internally across different zones/networks. Our network hasn't gotten big enough to set up multiple Routers. However, some months back I was on a very large network with many many Routers (only back then they weren't called Apple Internet Routers), and saw no problems with interactions between them. This was, however, strictly a LocalTalk network, with no IP on the wire. I must say, I'm surprised that Apple is releasing this product considering it's potential effect on companies like Knetics, Cayman, InfoSphere, and their bretheren. While it doesn't offer all of the services available with products from these companies (no DDP-IP routing; no AFP-NFS mapping; no dial-in access), it seems to be a far more flexible model (plug in a Token ring card, a few EtherTalk cards, two LocalTalk/PhoneNet networks, somebody's fiber-optic connection, etc.) and they can all be routed to and from. The cost of a headless Mac IIcx + Router software compares quite nicely with a Knetics or Cayman box, especially when that machine can also be a server (file or print or e-mail) and interconnects up to 8 different physical networks (at incremental cost, of course). Any reports on how well the Router works when going between two very active Ethernets? Between three of four? Between two or more Token Ring networks? Any idea how the NuBus handles the pressure? It would be interesting to see just how well the Router can work under that kind of load. Peter -- Peter "Arrgh" Korn korn@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU {decvax,hplabs,sdcsvax,ulysses,usenix}!ucbvax!korn