Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!elroy!ucla-cs!uci-ics!zardoz!tgate!irsx01!ka3ovk!drilex!axiom!linus!alliant!muller
From: muller@Alliant.COM (Jim Muller)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple
Subject: Re: Pcode(sort of) and Higher education
Message-ID: <3202@alliant.Alliant.COM>
Date: 9 Jun 89 16:14:27 GMT
References: <8906080121.aa17507@SMOKE.BRL.MIL>
Reply-To: muller@alliant.Alliant.COM (Jim Muller)
Organization: Alliant Computer Systems, Littleton, MA
Lines: 46

In article <8906080121.aa17507@SMOKE.BRL.MIL> MSER001@ECNCDC.BITNET writes:
>P-code; for some reason I always equate P with Pascal.  I know this is not
>what P-code actually is, but it still brings up the Nasty smell of the
>tight "type" pascal!  I hate to say this...but I really dislike pascal.
1. I'd think a more significant issue is what has been implemented.  "Real"
P-systems usually include Pascal, for historical or other reasons.  Thus the
"association" is natural.
2. The "Nasty smell" of Pascal may not be property of either the P-system or
the language.  Rather, it may be the result of courses.  Alas, Pascal is
often taught, in fact as a requirement, to undergraduate C.S. students.  It
is often taught in large classes, which makes for very dull lectures, and
frequently by instructors who have made it their life's work to be as dull
and uninspiring as physically possible.  I have spent a large part of my 40
years taking classes, and I like Pascal BTW (it is self-taught), yet the
Pascal lectures I have seen rank as the absolute worst in *all* my experience
(and I have also spent some years teaching, so I know a good lecture from a
bad one).  Another factor is that the typical C.S. student comes into these
classes with some experience in hacking small computers at home or in school.
This experience has rarely demanded great discipline or organization, but
often *has* involved making limited-resource machines do clever tricks.  The
result is a programming "style" that does not adapt well to the disiplined
world where all variables must be declared and the types must be honored.

>I...wonder if Pascal should be taught in Higher education, since this
>"teaching" leaks out into the real world.  If it had some features that
>were good for something other than getting a point across, maybe I could
>be shot down.
What is it that "leaks" out so badly, other than the feeling of dislike for
a language that can be quite organized and easy to understand?  Granted, it
*was* written to be an educational tool, and thus is maybe more restrictive
than a real-world language ought to be.  Oh, maybe you mean that if it weren't
taught, then people who learn it from some other source (like me, f'rinstance)
would like it better, would appreciate its organization better.  Is that it?
If so, I agree with you.  The same can be said for algebra, calculus, history,
physics, etc.

>Whats a Begin anyway, other than an over-stated {.
What's a { anyway, other than an understated BEGIN?  One could argue that
{ is a variant of [, itself a variant of (, and that to be most consistent
with algebraic use, something *else* should be used.  At least BEGIN is
unambiguous.

Sorry about the rambling, but your subject line did mention Higher Education.

-- 
    - Jim Muller