Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!att!cbnews!military From: sun!Central!uokmax!jkmedcal@uunet.UU.NET (Jeff K Medcalf) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: dogfighting Message-ID: <7393@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 13 Jun 89 03:23:24 GMT References: <7363@cbnews.ATT.COM> Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Organization: No, it isn't really. Lines: 43 Approved: military@att.att.com From: Jeff K Medcalf >From: "Christopher F. Bryden" >pilots and planes get judged by. Many people believe that the dogfight is >the ultimate position that tactical maneuvers involving fighters are supposed >to end in. This is a fallacy. I agree with your ending statement. However, I cannot accept all of what preceeded it. In the 1950's and early '60's, the Age of Missiles had made guns obsolete, and many warplanes could only carry them in external pods (for ground support). The fallacy of such thinking was that missiles were not able to always keep you out of a close engagement. In fact, with the poor accuracy of missiles of the period in field use (as opposed to theoretical), aircraft would often fire a missile for the sole purpose of putting the opponent on the defensive to make a gun kill easier. I cannot see stealth, new missile technology, and human limits overcoming all, or even most, close engagements. Admittedly 80% of killed pilots never saw the attacker, but that does not mean that they were killed BVR. Many of them were likely killed in a "dogfight" consisting of the attacker coming up in their six and getting a quick kill. Nonetheless, I believe that fighter pilots should be trained in dogfighting as well as missile skills. There will probably come a time when it will be needed. The US was caught in VietNam without dogfighting skills, and it should not be neglected again. As a side note, has anyone else noticed how quickly lessons of war are forgotten? It seems that every 20 years or so nations must send men into wars without training them with the lessons of previous conflicts. [mod.note: Or, worse yet, we remember the wrong lessons... - Bill ] -- I dream I'm safe jkmedcal@uokmax.UUCP In my hotel womb Jeff Medcalf Soft and so nice It's a wonderful womb <-The Church, "Hotel Womb"