Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!att!cbnews!military
From: vrdxhq!vrdxhq.verdix.com!bsmart@uunet.UU.NET (Bob Smart)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Dogfighting
Summary: Viff-ing, or Harriers don't fight fair
Message-ID: <7633@cbnews.ATT.COM>
Date: 21 Jun 89 02:46:14 GMT
References: <7471@cbnews.ATT.COM> <7514@cbnews.ATT.COM> <7590@cbnews.ATT.COM>
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From: vrdxhq!vrdxhq.verdix.com!bsmart@uunet.UU.NET (Bob Smart)

In article <7590@cbnews.ATT.COM>, wolit@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (Jan Wolitzky) writes:
> 
> 
> From: wolit@cbnewsm.ATT.COM (Jan Wolitzky)
> 
> I recall that this technique was used with success by British Harrier
> pilots against Argentine Mirages during the Falklands/Malvinas
> conflict.  The Harrier pilot would rotate his exhaust nozzles from
> their normal rearward-pointing position (in forward flight) through the
> downward-pointing position used for vertical flight, until they pointed
> a bit forward, providing some reverse thrust.  Not sure whether dive
> brakes were used as well, but the plane slowed down in a hurry.  The
> Mirage pilot was obviously unable to maintain his position on the
> Harrier's tail, and provided a good target for a Sidewinder as it went
> past.  The British pilots dubbed the maneuver "vff-ing," though I
> forget exactly what the "VF" stood for -- "vertical flight" or "vector
> forward" or something like that.

Viff stands for vector in forward flight, ie the use of the nozzles as descibed
while in forward flight. using dive brakes would have very little additional
effect ( what use is a few square feet of metal compared to several thousand
pounds of thrust :-))

> 
> Of course, I doubt that any pilot would actually CHOOSE to go up
> against a Mirage with a Harrier in a dogfight.  The technique does
> give the other guy the first crack at a tail shot, after all.

I worked on F-15s at Red Flag in the late 70's early 80's ( when there was no
argument that the eagle was the hottest thing around) and remember pilots
coming back after running into some USMC AV-8's on a strike mission
"The f---ers don't fight fair, you line up a good aim-9 or gun shot and
the d--ned thing stops in midair, it just ain't fair" ( pilot walks away
shaking his head and mumbleing to himself :-)) The only other plane
that had the respect of these guys was the A-4. The small size combined with
excellent manouverability and SMOKELESS engines mad them tough targets. The
British Vulcan, in it's first Redflag surprised the eagle drivers with its
slloooow speed " I had my barn door open(speed brake) flaps down and I'm
sitting beside him trying to slow up enough to get behind him AND HE SLOWS UP!
so I just cleaned up hit AB and looped in behind him, but I wouldn't believe
that big plane could fly that slow". Needless to say the surprise factor only
works the first one or two times for any aircraft. But the Harrier was so
unpredictable that the recommended solution was to kill them at long range or
blow past them at high speed and take snap shots, but NEVER try to manouver
with them.

Bob Smart (bsmart@verdix.com)

> -- 
> Jan Wolitzky, AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ; 201 582-2998; mhuxd!wolit
> (Affiliation given for identification purposes only)