Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!att!cbnews!military From: shafer@drynix (Mary Shafer) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Dogfighting Message-ID: <7644@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 21 Jun 89 02:46:46 GMT Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Lines: 51 Approved: military@att.att.com From: Mary Shafer Jan Wolitzky writes: >> From: bill@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu (William S. Smith) >> In 1958 on a flight out of Taiwan an air force pilot, who was returning from >> a tour teaching the Chinese Nationalists how to beat the MIGs with F86s, >> told me, a non-aviator, that his technique for solving the agility problem >> was to allow the MIG to get on his tail, pop the flaps, and fire a >> sidewinder as the MIG streaked past - always provided that the MIG didn't >> get off a shot first, of course. It sounds as if the speeds and distances >> have changed, but not much else! >I recall that this technique was used with success by British Harrier >pilots against Argentine Mirages during the Falklands/Malvinas >conflict. The Harrier pilot would rotate his exhaust nozzles from >their normal rearward-pointing position (in forward flight) through the >downward-pointing position used for vertical flight, until they pointed >a bit forward, providing some reverse thrust. Not sure whether dive >brakes were used as well, but the plane slowed down in a hurry. The >Mirage pilot was obviously unable to maintain his position on the >Harrier's tail, and provided a good target for a Sidewinder as it went >past. The British pilots dubbed the maneuver "vff-ing," though I >forget exactly what the "VF" stood for -- "vertical flight" or "vector >forward" or something like that. It's VIFFing, for vectoring in forward flight. The speed brakes aren't used--you don't want to provide any cues to the pursuer. However, I saw a briefing (at a Society of Experimental Test Pilots Symposium) by one of the RAF pilots who flew in the Falklands War and he explicitly said that VIFFing was not used in the war. I have also read this in a (borrowed) book, but I don't remember the title. The real problem with doing this is that you have markedly reduced your energy. You are now hanging in the sky and your opponent's wingman can just pick you off. This is OK if you have _no_ other way to escape, but it's kind of a last-ditch maneuver. The Harrier, with vectored thrust, is better than a conventional aircraft, but you still sacrifice maneuverability, speed, and/or altitude. In `Top Gun' Maverick does this, but I sure wouldn't want to get an F-14 slow. They have a departure problem that still isn't fixed. Maverick's subsequent departure and spin is based on a real accident. -- M F Shafer |Ignore the reply-to address NASA Ames-Dryden Flight Research Facility |Use shafer@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov NASA management doesn't know what I'm doing and I don't know what they're doing, and everybody's happy this way.