Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!apple!ames!elroy!ucla-cs!uci-ics!mb33%prism@gatech.EDU
From: mb33%prism@gatech.EDU (Martin H. Brooks)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: definition of feminism, can a man be a feminist?
Summary: Yes, our experiences are important to the feminist movement.
Message-ID: <17679@paris.ics.uci.edu>
Date: 13 Jun 89 18:20:11 GMT
Sender: news@paris.ics.uci.edu
Reply-To: mb33@prism.gatech.edu (Martin H. Brooks)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology (aka Georgia Tech)
Lines: 83
Approved: tittle@ics.uci.edu

[Responses to assorted articles follow  --Cindy]


>In article <16898@paris.ics.uci.edu> drc@beach.cis.ufl.EDU (David Cabana) writes:
In article <17419@paris.ics.uci.edu> apa@proof.cs.cmu.edu writes:

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>>If one accepts the position that a man cannot be a feminist, then
>>one accepts the position that a person's gender can render that person
>>incapable of holding (even perhaps understanding) certain beliefs.

>While I don't accept the position that a man can't be a feminist, I
>can't let this pass unchallenged.  I've heard this so many times, yet
>it seems an obvious distortion of a commonsense observation: a person
>who has never experienced something cannot understand it as well as
>one who has.

Definitely, but this concept needs to be viewed as a continuum.  To
one extreme, we all share in the understanding of what it's like to be
human, though to the other extreme, no one can COMPLETELY understand
the experience of another.  To be responsible and fair, I think we
must all be careful how we judge someone else's level of
understanding.

I'm a man, and I define myself as a feminist.  But, no matter how hard
I tried, I could never know how it feels to be discriminated against
for being a woman TO THE DEGREE that another woman could.  On the
other hand, I do know how it feels to be unfairly excluded and
stereotyped on the basis of other issues that SHOULDN'T be issues.

One of these issues happens to be sexism, from a man's perspective.
Believe me, I've received lots of mental abuse from both men and women
when I've fought against fitting into the traditional male role.  It's
always been very important to me to be free to define myself, and this
includes striving for desirable qualities traditionally labeled as
feminine as well as those traditionally labeled as masculine.  For me,
these experiences are all part of the feminist message; for these are
the same sexist structures that have caused mental abuse of women as
well, not to mention the added injustice of political and economic
discrimination!

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>women have been voiceless for a long
>time, so of course men have difficulty understanding our experience.
>We have trouble too, because it's not enough to *have* the experience;
>one has to communicate it to give it meaning.

Well, "feminists" HAD been voiceless for a relatively long time in the
scheme of things, but for the last two decades (roughly), I think
you'll agree that these voices have been STRONG and they have
definitely been HEARD.  Though the feminist movement has a long way to
go, let's not forget that a significant level of understanding has
already been achieved that includes both men and women.

************************************************************************

>the mechanisms that exclude women from power, autonomy, and
>wealth are so informal and subtle,

I wholeheartedly agree with this much, BUT...

>One of these mechanisms is the
>assumption that a man has the right and capability, by virtue of his
>objectivity, to define any situation.

I'm definitely not initiated into this line of discussion.  My first
impression is that it's one of those cleverly-constructed "catch 22"
machines aimed at disarming someone's opinion by "proving" itself
valid when the target expresses an opinion.  ;-)

My experiences have made me skeptical of the idea that men and women
have distinctly different thought processes.  Don't we ALL assume the
right to define concepts relative to our own perspective, preferably
with as much objectivity as possible?  I would be interested in
hearing more, though.  :-)

--
Martin H. Brooks
Georgia Institute of Technology (aka Georgia Tech), Atlanta, GA 30332
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