Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!oliveb!sun!pepper!cmcmanis From: cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Board Master Review Message-ID: <112912@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: 28 Jun 89 21:06:08 GMT References: <111571@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> <19814@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@sun.Eng.Sun.COM Reply-To: cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View Lines: 79 In article <19814@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Re: Board Master and Chuck's review ... >Yes, it definitely appears to be an offshoot of PCLO (and PCLO-Plus). With >the same MAJOR problems. Hmm, "MAJOR" as in MAJOR opinion ? Well, let me put it this way. If I had payed $1000 bucks for this program, I would be irritated that it could not put down parts with non .1" spacing on the board. For $75, I can find a DB-25 connector that brings it's pins out to .1" spacing. >I "played" with it for awhile at the dealer's today (probably the same place >where Chuck bought his :-) and, like the PCLO predecessor, there's NO WAY to >lay down the footprint for real-world connectors such as DB-25, Molex, etc. Well the manual states "Buy some 2X artwork for these parts and stick it to your photoplots." which is of course a cop out. >I've discussed this with the author ever since early 1986, and just could NOT >convince him of his folly: there ARE things that go on printed circuit boards >which REQUIRE other than a multiple of .025"/.050" pin (or other) spacing. However, if you look at how this package is obviously designed you will know why it is obvious that these parts cannot be accomodated. The grid is 256 X 256 square boxes set on .05" centers. (that is a board 12.8" by 12.8" on a side. The "symbols" that the program lays out are nothing more than a 10 X 10 pixel "characters" in a font that when layed down on the screen appear as traces and pads. So now that you know the "secret" of how this is built, you can see that it makes placing "odd sized" parts on the layout impossible. It might be possible to define a "connector" or "DB-25" graphic that can be laid out on this system, but connecting it wouldn't be possible unless it ran to .05" centers somewhere. >For example: the connector pin spacing of a DB-25 connector is .109" All of the PC mount DB-25s I've seen recently can be fairly easily plugged into .1" perfboard. I suppose they may be straining the pins a bit though. >If you're doing "home" board layouts on which all parts are "digital" and/or >have .025/.050-multiple spacing, you'd probably find the product usable. Absolutely correct, and that is what I can recommend it for. If you are like me and usually do you layouts with wirewrap on .1" perfboard then this tool is an excellent way of laying out PCBs for those projects. >But don't expect to ever lay down .156" card edge fingers (or DB-xx or other >"analog" parts). Sigh. :-( Well, I don't have any problem with resistors, caps, TO-220 cased parts (such as voltage regulators), LEDs, lamp holders, or 90% of the "analog" parts I use on my perfboards, so I don't think they will be a problem with this program. >And, yes, that year WAS 1986; I was one of the earliest testers of PCLO, and >have a $1,000 hole in my pocket to prove it. :-( :-( And you have every right to be pissed off that the $1000 layout product you bought couldn't compete with similarly priced systems on other platforms. However, for _$75_, it is an excellent tool for laying out just about anything I would want to build. Why not re-evaluate it on those conditions and tell me again that it has "MAJOR" problems. For those of you still trying to find it, either ask your dealer for it or contact : Black Belt Systems 398 Johnson Rd RR1 Box 4272 Glasgow, Montana 59230 (406) 367-5509 --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. "A most excellent barbarian ... Genghis Kahn!"