Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!att!mcdchg!ddsw1!karl From: karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Seagate. Summary: We're not pissed off; the drives fail no more often than others here Message-ID: <3671@ddsw1.MCS.COM> Date: 4 Jul 89 04:17:29 GMT References: <8907020047.AA15716@lilac.berkeley.edu> Reply-To: karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Mundelein, IL Lines: 86 In article <8907020047.AA15716@lilac.berkeley.edu> CRONEJP@UREGINA1.BITNET (Jonathan Crone) writes: >has anyone considered a class action lawsuit against seagate??? > >I got off the phone with one of their Tech Support supervisors >who told me out and out that their drives had NO PROBLEM!!! > >which means that all of us are a bunch of liars... That's not nice.... and inaccurate to boot. >I would appreciate everyone who has had difficulties with Seagate >products to please email me to any of the following addresses >complete descriptions of their difficulties, the rememedy >(including the manufacturer of the new drive they bought after getting >pissed at seagate.) We've been using and selling Seagate drives for over three years. Here's our experiences with them: ST225 - Junk. But then again, what do you want for $200 or so? If you don't want cheap, don't buy these. The biggest problem with these is that they don't autopark, which leads to damage on the working surface of the media when they are moved about. ST251/251N/277R - SOME models have problems. Older drives will get "stiction"; there are also a few newer ones around which do this. All of the ones which we have had do this were replaced IN WARRANTY. The replacements have not failed -- not a SINGLE one. We sell these in nearly every system we ship -- and they are good drives for us. The only other problem I have had with these is with one unit which was physically abused -- it headcrashed. That wasn't Seagate's fault. I have one unit, out of some 150 shipped in the last year, which is dead now in the field. It is being replaced IN WARRANTY this week. It has the "stictionitis". Our distributor hasn't given me any heartache about getting it changed out -- just an RMA number. ST4038/4051 - Garbage. These were unreliable, often exhibiting temperature related failure modes. If you kept them cool they were fine. After a year or so Seagate finally figured out what was wrong with them (a bad part) and gave us enough info to fix the lot of 'em. Those which we bothered to refurbish are now working fine. ST4096/ST4144R - A good unit. We've had no undue problems with these. One failure out of 20-30 units sold and in service over the last two years. All of the Seagate drives are CHEAP. All meet their MTBFs in my experience, as long as you don't run them too hot (it's not nice to cook your electronic gear!) Keep them cool, and they will run for a long time. Let the case temperature go over 40-45 degrees Celcius, and you'll be buying another one -- fast. I run mine cool, and spec systems (including the FAN) so they run cool as well. Kept at a reasonable operating temperature they live a nice long life. There are better drives around, but they all cost more. For the money we'll buy Seagate again. If you want the best bite the bullet and buy a CDC Wren. But get ready to mortgage your house when you do it. FYI, there are FIVE of these monsters within reach right now, all running. The count looks something like this: 3 ST251 - One running RLL which it's not rated for, but nonetheless works flawlessly! 1 ST4096 - Again, running RLL (and not rated for it) 1 ST4144R - RLL as well, and rated for it All but the 4144 are in excess of a year old (the 4144 was installed this afternoon; we needed more space on the Unix system). They all work fine and have since we purchased them. Again -- keep those drives COOL. 10 degrees of additional heat takes FIFTY PERCENT off your operating lifetime. The temperature of the drive case should never be too warm to _comfortably_ put your hand on. If you feel the least bit uncomfortable doing this (ie: temperature over about 90-100 degrees F; 35-40 Celcius) it's too darn hot! Get a bigger or more powerful fan. We follow that rule here, and our nice cheap Seagate drives live a long life. -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, !ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 312 566-8911], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"