Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!mcvax!fmr From: fmr@cwi.nl (Frank Rahmani) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Re: Re: Making Piracy work in your Favor Message-ID: <934@sering.cwi.nl> Date: 26 Jun 89 00:20:54 GMT References: <890625.11081288.023669@SFA.CP6> Organization: CWI, Amsterdam Lines: 159 ??Path: mcvax!uunet!lll-winken!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!bionet!agate!ucbvax!SFAUSTIN.BITNET!Z4648252 ??From: Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) ??Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st ??Subject: Just a simple thanks... ??Message-ID: <890624.20021969.023570@SFA.CP6> ??Date: 25 Jun 89 02:02:20 GMT ??Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU ??Organization: The Internet ??Lines: 20 ?? ?? ?? It boggles my mind, folks, and I won't hog too much space. However, ??I just want to pass a note of thanks to every STer in the world, and I ??mean 'world' literally, who has given me so much help in the various ??aspects of running my ST system. ?? Although I have daily operated an ST since the summer of 1985, I ??formerly did so in a large city area where ST BBSes and clubs were ??common-place. We would all get together, someone would come up with a ??brain storm, and eventually we would get the idea and sometimes the ??problem solved. I grew to take that for granted. ?? Two years or so ago, I moved to a rural area where no STs exist, or ??any other computer for that matter, other than a few Macs. I found myself ??isolated and totally on my own when I discovered a new potential, or new ??idea, and unfortunately, new problem on my ST. ?? It is through this net that STers throughout the world have offered ??aid and much help. The INFO-A16 magazine has solved more problems for ??me and extended the life of my machine than any other method. Thanks to ??all. I just had to say this. Pat yourselves on the back... ?? ??Larry Rymal ? ? Terrell made a two-pronged list of how to protect products of ? piracy and how to make piracy advantageous. His first prong was to ? make sure that the product was one worth having because of its Customer ? Support, Update Announcements, Monthly Newsletters, and decent ? Documentation. His second prong was to make the product workable ? through piracy by having Customer Support request the user's name/address ? or registration number, etc., and declining support if the user ? cannot supply such or maybe even providing support. He stated that ? when new releases come out, the pirate will want the latest, thus wanting ? to finally buy, in order that he will get the latest. He concluded ? with having Ordering Information in the documentation, never Copy ? Protect, and finally Never Prosecute. If copies are found on a BBS, ? then the SysOp should be told to remove the posting and an advertisement ? be posted instead for the product. ? First off, none of this will work. Indeed, this type of logic makes ? me see nothing but red. Terrell is trying to solve a complex problem ? which is not meant to be complex at all. The very nature of the software ? market makes stealing software easy and natural. Taking something from ? a shelf without paying is simple. The methods of protecting that ? product are complex. Piracy is stealing. It is pure theft. Thief. ? Crook. Scum.... ? WordPerfect ST has everything and more of the first prong that ? Terrell mentioned. It has an 800 customer support line. The people ? will even call you at your home to get you up and going, for crying out ? loud! They've got a monthly newsletter, their manual is over 600 pages. ? The bookstores have volumes of books on how to use WordPerfect (though for ? the IBM/Macs). ? Product support, and indeed PRICE, will not end piracy, stealing, ? scum thieving of a product. When the August 88 release of WordPerfect ? entered the market last year, by two days after the first mailing, the ? product was on the ST pirate boards. Many of these boards are university ? student BBSes, where students can purchase WordPerfect for $99.00. ? In further support of human nature scum stealing software no matter ? the cost, I can recall Beagle Brothers products for the Apple // series. ? A successful company even to this day, they offered utility packages ? as cheap as $8.00. Yet, the pirate boards were rampant at distributing ? their products, in spite of the low costs. ? If I were a developer, I'd persecute pirates and distributors ? to the full extent of the law and then some. Prison sentences, ? confiscation of equipment comes to mind. ? If I were a developer, I'd distribute a crippled WORKING ? version of the product, with key routines REMOVED. I can recall ? during the early days when MichTron's TimeBandits came out, version ? 0.96. It was never meant to be distributed but that was a working ? version. However, it did not have all the features of the final ? product. I can recall my reaction, "Man, where can I buy the real ? thing?" A crippled version, without tons of ads in it, would let ? 'Honest Joe' evaluate a product without buying something that he ? doesn't want. ? WordPerfect sells to college students an IBM version of their ? product in which a reference manual and crippled disk can be had ? for $11.00! Shucks, the reference manual is worth the $11.00. Being ? able to look at the software is a nice bonus. ? Finally, if I were a developer, I'd make sure that my final ? product includes a backup disk of the original if my product was ? a likely candidate for piracy forcing me TO INSTALL COPY PROTECTION. ? AppleWriter did this for their product. That was a long time ? ago but I still think it is a good idea. ? If I were forced to install copy protection, then I would make ? sure that the product was able to be installed on a hard drive. ? Oh well... ? Just as Terrell tried to address this awful scum bag problem and ? flopped, in my opinion, so did I. It is difficult to fight those ? who, through trashy ethics, find it ok to steal. They are going to ? steal, no matter what is done. ? The bottom line is whether the software is making a profit. We've ? got to evangelise the ST so that its volume will pick up. ? Ok, flame me. I meant this to be a simple comment. Didn't mean ? for it to be a book. ? ? Larry Rymal Dear Larry, just as there are two opposing sides to your character, as shown by your two postings (one very friendly ,the other full of name-calling), there are also two opposing aspects to software piracy. I just wonder why nobody wants to accept this. Software pirats want to have, no, they must have every piece of software that's around, but on the other side they would never buy it. They like the possession of all these beautiful pieces of code and if they are clever enough they see it as a challenge to break any copy protection. The software industrie looses nothing on them, because they see byuing as an insult to their capability to score. This has nothing to do with the price of the software. For them other values are applicable. A text processor worth $200 without manual may have a much lower exchange rate than that foxy $10 supergame in their circles. Believe it or not, these people are not dangerous. That are the other ones, John Doe's who have enough money to buy the software but wan't miss the chance of getting it for free or very little money. Those people could be customers.They are using the phenomenon pirates to save money. They are even on the net, condemning software piracy (and silently smiling about the thaught of what's in their drawer, who would have any suspicions about them?). And they are numerous. A whole new industry has grown to support them. That's the books, that for a just reasonable price of $20-$30 make -as one states on the cover-the original user manual superficious. Some of them are more or less literally re-writes of the original manuals. Without these books it would be nearly impossible to use the pirated packages. Or would you like to copy a 600-page odd-format manual? The 'trial set' of WordPerfect you mention is just another of these books, this time even the original. WP thinks: if we can't sell them the software, we'll at least sell them the manual before somebody else clones it. Quite another issue is the availability of a certain package. No normal software dealer here in Europe has more than at most ten copies of an expensive program (from fear to not get rid of them). So if the people want to buy the package,only the first ten are lucky. The others go home empty handed. So next day someone offers them the program. And even for a cheap price. Imagine what they are doing... In general it can be said that software piracy is a phenomenon that's here to stay. It is proved that no scheme, whatever complicated, can prevent software piracy in the long run without making the prices higher or the user comfort lower. Even if you would give the software away for free to all known hacker types, next day somebody else would start stealing the program. I don't advocate software stealing at all, I'm just realistic enough to recognize that there is nothing we can do about it. As long as the majority of users chooses to buy their software, we're lucky. Once this fragile balance tips to the other side...who knows what wiill happen. I realise that especially the small companies are very vulnerable, but there is little they can do to prevent being robbed, too many aspects bear an influence on their sales-success. Name-calling on the net is useless. Try to convince people not to accept given copies of software without manuals, try to show people how much info can be won from the manual and try to give them the feeling that byuing software is not just stupid but also fair. I wish all software developers a reasonable income from their efforts. Regards fmr@cwi.nl -- It is better never to have been born. But who among us has such luck? Maintainer's Motto: If we can't fix it, it ain't broke. These opinions are solely mine and in no way reflect those of my employer.