Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!att!mcdchg!ddsw1!karl From: karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc Subject: RE: Northgate Problems Message-ID: <[4071.1]comp.ibmpc;1@ddsw1.MCS.COM> Date: 2 Jul 89 06:00:11 GMT References: <20546@bikini.cis.ufl.EDU> Lines: 100 >Item 4071 (0 responses) by mjs at beach.cis.ufl.edu on Sat 01 Jul 89 22:22 >[Mike Sensale] Subject: RE: Northgate Problems > >A recent posting by Miriam Nadel suggests that Northgate computers are >plagued with problems. I submit to you that Ms. Nadel is the Problem. >I am a proud owner of a Northgate PC and where my machiot been >perfect as is true with all machines any and all problems I have encountered >have been easily corrected by the Northgate techs. Many of these problems >were simply improper settings caused by myself and resident programs. > >It is obvious that Miraim Nadel has little or no experience with >PC's. Here posting reads like a disgruntled house wife who went out and.... ...... (lots more deleted) This is unadulterated garbage! First off, your comment above is sexist and uncalled for. Secondly, the report I read (did you read it all?) specifically referenced two problems that I cannot reconcile with bad software, user misunderstanding or other problems of that kind -- CMOS memory settings altering themselves (!) and video board failures. Neither of those can be caused by rogue software configurations, unless you are doing low-level work (ie: writing "C" code which is bad can corrupt the CMOS). Nothing I can come up with would explain the video board boot failures -- except a board or system failure of some kind. Some of the disk troubles (disappearing files, corrupted FATs) _CAN_ be caused by software errors. If this is indeed the case, however, I would blame Northgate anyways -- they are shipping DOS 4.x, WHICH IS KNOWN TO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH SOME UTILITY SOFTWARE! WHY WASN'T MIRIAM WARNED AND GIVEN A CHOICE OF MSDOS 3.3 INSTEAD? Specifically, some versions of Norton's will blow the FAT tables of a 4.x disk drive, and some other utility software will do the same. For this reason we recommend AGAINST the purchase of 4.x at this time, instead selling most customers DOS 3.30. That many are unaware of the pitfalls in DOS 4 is not an issue -- that NORTHGATE appears to be unaware of the pitfalls, didn't advise the customer of the potential problems, and didn't know what had possibly caused the problem after a failure is inexcusable! In short, they sell the product. They had darn well better know it also, or eat the consequences. I will address a few other concerns of Miriam's here as well (my prior posting on this subject addressed the credit-card nonsense): 1) The replacement disk was claimed to have been shipped in a box without anti-stat wrap, surrounded by "peanuts" (styrofoam packing). This is BAD NEWS. Disk drives should be shipped in semi-rigid foam -- not styrofoam beads. They should also be in some kind of conductive wrapping. Styrofoam can generate thousands of volts of static charge when it is moved around, and "peanuts" shift, allowing the drive to bang against the side of the box! Nothing that heavy, fragile, and with mass concentration similar to a fixed disk should EVER be shipped in a box using "peanuts" as cushioning material. To do so is to ask for concealed damage to occur. 2) Northgate took a _month_ to fix the system the first time. This is unacceptable, and does not live up to their stated service policies. I'd flame them to a crisp for that alone. 3) They acknowledged the problem by replacing the motherboard on the system. In other words, they admitted something was broken. 4) I would like to hear how a software incompatibility can cause the system disk to be unformattable. That is, how some software problem can prevent a _LOW LEVEL_ format from working. I don't think that is likely in any set of circumstances. Sounds like a bad disk or controller to me. In short, I believe that the disk corruption may (MAY) have been caused by software incompatibility problems - the rest sounds like hardware trouble to me. This does not excuse Northgate in the least -- they should KNOW WHAT THEY SELL, and advise the customer accordingly. It is reasonable for a company to charge a restocking fee on returned hardware which is working at the time it is returned. It's not reasonable to do the same on a piece of equipment which has been nearly unusable since it was purchased, has a one year warranty, and doesn't work right even after a trip back to the factory for service -- not to mention that the time during which it wasn't malfunctioning the gear was either in transit for repairs or hadn't been shipped originally to the customer! Selling something mail-order does not absolve the vendor from knowing the products they are selling, including their pitfalls and weak points. In my opinion, Northgate owes Miriam a working system or a full refund, and owes every potential purchaser an explanation of the potential troubles when shipping things like MSDOS 4 -- before they buy. Disclaimer: I'm the President of a company that sells ATs and 386 systems. -- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, !ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 312 566-8911], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"