Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!att!cbnews!military From: shafer@drynix (Mary Shafer) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: F-4, etc. Message-ID: <7907@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 30 Jun 89 20:10:48 GMT Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Lines: 57 Approved: military@att.att.com From: Mary Shafer Michael J. Tighe wrote the stuff with the odd no. of >, the even no. of > stuff comes from me: >>> The F-4 a fighter? I respectfully disagree. The F-4 was an air defense >> ^^^ fleet? >I guess it depends on who the owner of the plane is. If it was the >USAF, then the plane was air defense; if it was the USN, then it was >fleet defense. The F-4 was designed and built for the Navy as a fleet defense a/c. It was eventually (and rather grudgingly) bought by the Air Force as a fighter, rather than an air defense a/c. By the time the Air Force bought it, the Navy had already put the gun in, added the slats, etc. to make it a fighter. Now that it's in the Air National Guard squadrons, it's back to being an air defense a/c. The Air Force also uses it for Wild Weasel. Recce, too, or is that the Luftwaffe? I could see that they were recce F-4s, but I couldn't see the markings. >Another interesting (albeit stupid) is that the refueling receptacles >were not the same. The USN F-4 used a male probe, while the USAF F-4 >used a female receptacle. I assume this was fixed eventually, but it >could have been a problem. All Navy (and Marine) a/c refuel with probe and drogue, all USAF a/c use the boom. This will probably never change, although the Air Force has fitted a drogue refuelling system to the KC-135 and KC-10. However, this has to be installed on the ground and doesn't have all the features that the Navy drogue does. One Navy pilot has told me that you can get fuel from it, but it's really just barely adequate. He said something about the pucker factor involved in a mid-ocean, night refuelling when you're down to 300 lb, even with a _good_ drogue system.... Flight International had a good article about refuelling about 3-4 weeks ago. The cover has an inset picture of a Phantom, probe out, closing on the drogue. (Phantom because it's an RAF a/c, I think.) The Navy and Air Force also use different O2 and radio connections, so that the helmets aren't compatible. The only thing that the Navy and the Air Force agree on is that the Army shouldn't have fast jets :-). BTW, most NATO a/c, except the F-16, refuel with probe and drogue. This is really obvious when you look at the RAF Hercules, with a fixed probe added on after (during?) the Falklands war. -- M F Shafer shafer@elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center arpa!elxsi.dfrf.nasa.gov!shafer Dryden Flight Research Facility DON'T use the drynix address Of course I don't speak for NASA A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all. --Unknown US fighter pilot.