Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!geneva.rutgers.edu!christian From: fibercom!lab@uunet.uu.net (Lance Beckner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: None should perish (was Re: Williamson's Regulative Principle) Message-ID: Date: 6 Jul 89 06:37:20 GMT Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu Organization: FiberCom, Inc., Roanoke, VA Lines: 75 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , bnr-fos!bnr-public!davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) writes: > Even though God ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > offers salvation to everyone and even commands everyone to seek it, He ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Himself has chosen those whom He will save and no one else will be ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > able to find it, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Do you realize what you are saying here? God has commanded all to seek salvation, and yet he intentionally hides the secret of salvation from some. He then will condemn to hell the people that have not found the salvation that He has hidden! Do you really believe this? Let's use an earthly example of this: I tell my five year old daughter, "Angela, I have bought you a wonderful present. If you find it, it is yours, but if you don't, you can't have it. Little does she know that I have hidden her present in the attic. HA, she doesn't even know we HAVE an attic. Furthermore, I decide to spank her for not finding the present (after all, I commanded her to find it, and children are supposed to be obedient to their parents). Is this fair? Is this just? God does not play games with the human race. He sent His Son into the world that the world might be saved. The Lord is not willing that ANY should perish, He wants ALL to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). How can it be His will that none should perish, and it also be His will that some not find out the secret to salvation? > Although the Bible, when understood correctly > (something which none of us can attain to), is very accurate about > everything it tells us, He has written it in a style that lends itself > to being understood only when combined with His assistence. This is > why it is so very important to make sure that we test each and every > idea we have with each and every verse in the entire Bible. Failing to > do so could easily lead us to become convinced of completely incorrect > things. I agree that there is probably no human being who *completely* understands the Bible. I also agree that we need to look at scripture in the light of other scripture. I look at the *whole* Bible and I see God working throughout to bring people to Himself. I do not see God trying to "hide" from people, and then punishing them for not finding Him. To me, this describes a very cruel god. > Dave Mielke, 613-726-0014 > 856 Grenon Avenue > Ottawa, Ontario, Canada > K2B 6G3 -- Lance A. Beckner INTERNET: lab@fibercom.com FiberCom, Inc. UUCP: ...!uunet!fibercom!lab P.O. Box 11966 FAX: (703) 342-5961 Roanoke, VA 24022-1966 PHONE: (703) 342-6700 [I don't think that's quite what was meant. When somebody says that "He Himself has chosen those whom He will save and no one else will be able to find it", it's not that God is hiding anything from anyone. It's that he has chosen to create a wide range of kinds of people, including both those who respond to his invitation and those who don't. The fact that he created (or set things up so there would develop) both kinds of people is his choice, so he's responsible for the fact that not everyone accepts his offer. But it's not that his offer is invisible or something. I'm still not sure what I think about all of this. There are a number of unresolved issues running around in my mind regarding predestination. But the classical version of it isn't quite the outrage that it first appears. --clh]