Xref: utzoo comp.databases:2959 comp.software-eng:1768 Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!mtxinu!rtech!squid!robf From: robf@squid.rtech.com (Robert Fair) Newsgroups: comp.databases,comp.software-eng Subject: Re: 4GL and Application Prototyping in Databases Keywords: 4GL DBMS prototype maintainability OSL QBF INGRES Message-ID: <3190@rtech.rtech.com> Date: 14 Jul 89 16:51:08 GMT References: <378@proexam.UUCP> Sender: news@rtech.rtech.com Reply-To: robf@squid.UUCP (Robert Fair) Organization: Relational Technology, Inc. Lines: 90 >1) >Yes, I am also using Ingres to develop a significantly large application >but I quickly found out that OSL is good ONLY for menu creation and not much >more. What do you find missing ? OSL/4GL has: - All of SQL - Practically all the FRS/screen handling constructs from ESQL - Very high level constructs for screen handling, master/detail queries etc - Easy interfaces to other INGRES systems, plus the O/S - Pure 4GL procedures and frames, plus 3GL interface - plus 3GL-style flow control [IF/THEN/ELSEIF/ENDIF WHILE/DO/ENDWHILE] if you want it. INGRES release 6 added more features, including: - More FRS constructs - Precompiled queries [REPEAT queries] - SELECT loops - Run database procedures from 4GL [6.2 onwards] - Library management [6.2 onwards] - Specify default Frame or Procedure to run [6.2 onwards] - others Also ABF itself got a nice facelift in 6.2, with lots of nice pop-up windows and state-of-the-art zippiness - its actually quite pretty now. >3) Personally, I am VERY disappointed with INGRES. > a) It CANNOT do ROW level locking!! In most cases row level locking is not a big win - see the recent press comparing INGRES & Oracle, what happens is that the locking overhead increases so much with row locking that it cancels out the benefits of higher concurrancy, it turns out most often page locking is the best compromise [for those who don't know INGRES uses page or table level locking, as appropriate] > b) It DOES NOT have a modify structure command. INGRES has very dynamic ability to change the structure of tables, using the MODIFY command. If you want to add/delete whole columns from the database schema [SQL's ALTER TABLE] it can be done with about 3 regular SQL statements. > c) It offers only token support for ESQL/C (in favor of EQUEL/C) This is just plain crazy, INGRES offers full support for Embedded SQL for multiple environments, including C, ADA, Pascal, Fortran, COBOL... The release 5 ESQL was powerful enough for some VERY complex applications to use it, while the native server SQL in release 6 added more features including: - Dynamic SQL, including DESCRIBE/PREPARE/EXECUTE/EXECUTE IMMEDIATE. - Database procedures, including execution control facilities. - Cursors native to the server, including special READONLY cursors for maximum performance. - SELECT loops Note that most of these features are SQL *only* - about the only feature you can access from QUEL is a variant of cursors, and of course the original RETRIEVE loop still exists. > d) VIFRED (it's screen painter) is a ROYAL PAIN etc etc... > (Somebody at RTI should take a look at SPERFORM from informix!) Please explain what "ROYAL PAIN etc etc..." means - vifred certainly has more power and flexibility than SPERFORM [and yes, I have used both] New features are constantly being added - for example in release 6 vifred gives you: - Popup forms and windows - Box & line drawing - Sideways scrolling fields - Templates for date/money/numeric values - Invisible fields - Dynamic type changing of fields - others >5) Lastly, for quick prototyping, Informix offers the >"Informix Rapid Development system." which is portable from UNIX to DOS to XENIX The only nice thing about the RDS is the 4GL interpreter, which INGRES has in 6.2 [although you can still compile to object code for performance if you want]. Also, last time I looked the RDS was an expensive add-on to Informix - the INGRES 4GL interpreter is a standard part of ABF. Robert Fair Technical Support Relational Technology, Inc Disclaimer: These opinions are mine alone, and do not represent my employer, RTI, in any way.