Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!stuartb From: stuartb@microsoft.UUCP (Stuart Burden) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac Subject: Re: Red Ryder 11.0 (kinda long and semi flamey) Message-ID: <6253@microsoft.UUCP> Date: 9 Jul 89 20:39:05 GMT References: <780@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> <6237@microsoft.UUCP> <784@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> Reply-To: stuartb@microsoft.UUCP (Stuart Burden) Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Lines: 91 In article <784@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.3Com.com (Norman Goodger) writes: >Your problem Stu is that you are confusing what Scott planned to do >with Red Ryder Host. The idea of Icons and dialogs was something he >planned to planned to integrate in Host, however I suspect like >many grand plans reality sets in and one discovers that the problems >that one encounters and the speed problems that would arise from >a graphics interface as originally planned made for it not happening. >However with the Shell Compiler you can create a Custom Interface for >Procedure files. Using Dialogs etc, so part of the interface is there, >and there are procedures that make use of the Shell Compiler on Genie. I think RRHost is great!... I was a RRHost sysop for a short period of time in Australia, before moving to the US. My critisisms of RRHost would have been (at the time), lack of multiline support (which I believe has been changed now?) and the bother of having half a dozen apps all to design different parts of the BBS system.. a great bag of utilties but hardly efficient!.. all in all, my experiences with Host were very good (I looked at WWIV, MouseHole.. I think, and a couple of others that I don't even recall). I have reviewed various incarnations of Red Ryder for Australian MacWorld, as well as Microphone and others. I know what can be done with the Shell Compiler and ol'Red's proceedures, and you know that there where only minimal enhancments made to the scripting from 9 to 10, some new functions sure, but certainly nothing breakthrough. >Speaking of disgraceful product releases, should one be reminded of >Word 3.00...Word 4.0 was not free either, so make sure your own closet >is clean before you a start accusing other software companies for failing >to deliver Stu...as far as not upgrading and thinking that your being >fooled, its your loss. Your problems lie in the your expectations it >appears. Not quite sure what to tell you there.... Word 3 and Word 4 have absolutely no bearing on this discussion.. remember I CAN have a personal view or two also.. or do you see yourself as a 3Com employee, critisizing Microsoft..??? (insert: confused rehtorical shrug). Remember, Scott Watson is SOLELY responsponsible as creator, author, maintainer, distributor and retailer for the Red Ryder product! It's his baby, and if he promises even so much as a single feature and does not deliver, then it is solely his responsibility, and so is taking the critisism that follows. My expectation was not unreasonable. Scott advertised a product, I forked out the money and bought it and it was nothing like he promised it would be.. PERIOD! I'm entitled to be disgruntled, and I'm pointing out that on past performance, which is poor, I would not buy the upgrade!. I know about 3 or 4 people who bought the upgrade to RR10, none of whom are pleased with the product they got, for the promised feature enhancments, and none of whom will be upgrading to version 11. This is a 100% failing for RR!!. I know that you, as Scotts Sysop, will probably refute this, that's a given :-) I was also most disapointed in the touted GEnie forum for FreeSoft. After 4 weeks (one message per week) I recieved a 2 line reply about the through- put speed problems at high baud rates in 10.3 (clocked at approx 1200 - 2400 baud at 57.6K, direct connect). The response was almost exactly the same as your response about "a slew of INIT's". My response was that removing all the INIT's made little (at least no timable) difference.. I never heard another word about it.. still haven't.. a year later.. and the same non specific line about INIT's is being used. :-( (does not make for favourable reviews). I found what Scott promised for RR10, in Acknowledge and am quite happy with it's customisability and performance. If you think price is an issue, let me say that by the time Scott catches up to Acknowledge in technology and design, the Red Ryder upgrades would probably have paid for it anyway!. I don't think I'm missing anything in the Red Ryder 11 upgrade, Norm, the world of Macintosh communications has surged past Scott Watson and if he is trying to catch up, I wish him good luck, it would really be nice to see ol'Red back on top again.. but personally I don't think it will be. >-- >Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 >3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. >Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) >UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM Stu. __Paths to my door:_______________________ microsoft!stuartb@beaver.cs.washington.edu - Usual disclaimer, that all microsoft!stuartb@uw-beaver.arpa - the above is pure fantasy microsoft!stuartb@uunet.UU.NET - and Microsoft only [DE01HB]stuartb@DASNET# {from AppleLink} - gave me the Mountain Dew stuartb@microsoft.uucp {well connected} - to dream it all in a D2012 {@applelink.apple.com - shared acct} - caffeine haze :-) __________________________________________________________________________