Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Predestination and judgement Message-ID: Date: 8 Jul 89 09:50:29 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 128 Approved: christian@geneva.rutgers.edu Unlike some other things I've written, this note does not describe any final conclusions. Rather, I'm putting down some reactions I have to the discussion on predestination. They certainly lead somewhere, but I am by no means completely committed to go there. I propose to deal with both judgement and predestination. The major problem with predestination is that it portrays God as judging people in a way that looks unjust, so we have to look at what is said about judgement. I've just taken a glance through most of the NT. I'm sure I haven't found everything, but I've tried to get a feeling for what the various authors had to say about the subject. Most of the NT is really rather straightforward: God has called us to a life of loving obedience. Those who do are saved. Those who don't aren't. Jesus is unapologetic about talking about people who don't accept his message ending up in hell. Rev gives the by now classic portrait of those who are not in the book of life being thrown into the lake of fire for eternal torment. There are some nuances that give slightly different impressions. Rev 20 is clear that those who are not saved are in for eternal torment. Mat 25 (specifically 41 and 46) says this as well. Lk 20:27-40 sounds like it is implying that only those who are saved are resurrected. Some of Jesus' common reference to "destruction" could possibly be taken this way as well. One could (and I have from time to time) argue that God doesn't punish anyone eternally. They either aren't resurrected at all, or they simply cease to exist. But I think the obvious reading of the NT is that judgement does involve punishment. But beyond this fairly straightforward view, we see signs of something more complex. I believe that predestination is tied up with these concepts. These things are clearest in Paul, but interestly enough there are signs of it in Peter as well. Paul has his share of the standard preaching about judgement. There are several lists of bad actions, with statements that people who do them will never be saved. But in Romans we see signs of something deeper. Much of Romans is dealing with the relationship between the Jews and Gentiles, and in particular with the problem that many of the Jews did not accept Jesus. The comments on predestination (centered around Rom 9) are in this context. At this point Paul makes us privy to what he says is a secret plan of God. He says that the Jews decision to reject Jesus is part of God's plan. It is (1) his way to provide an opportunity for the Gentiles to be saved, and (2) that God intended all to disobey, in order that his mercy to all would be that much clearer: "In the same way, because of the mercy that you have received, the Jews now disobey God, in order that they also may now receive God's mercy. For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all." (Rom 11:31-32) The business about the pots and hardening people (Rom 9:10 ff.) must be taken in this context. First, Paul is not talking about hardening in general, but specifically about the Jews. And second, he describes this as part of God's grand plan for saving everyone, including those who were hardened. He held off the Jews' salvation in order to get an opportunity to graft in the Gentiles. But in 11:25 he tells us the secret that once this happens, all the Jews will be saved. Now it is not entirely clear what is meant by "all" in some of these passages. It certainly means more than now. At the moment God has hardened all but a remnant of the Jews. In the end this will be reversed, and "all" of them will be saved. It may mean all that are still alive at that point, or simply that it will no longer be a small remnant, but the whole people. The point is that it does not necessarily mean every individual Jew that has ever lived. To the extent that Paul's comments about hardening are taken in this context, we need not necessarily say that Rom 9 teaches a general doctrine of double predestination. Rather, he is describing a specific episode of hardening -- namely the Jews -- and for those specific people it becomes clear in 11:25 ff. that it was temporary. However I think if you put this section of Romans in the context of some of Paul's other comments, you can apply them more generally. Rom 11:32 is particularly suggestive. When you take in it the context of Paul's version of sola fide (from Rom. and Gal., primarily), it is attractive to think of this as suggesting that his analysis of Jews and Gentiles is simply a special case of the way God works as a whole. In order to make it clear that salvation comes entirely from his grace, God first hardens and judges everyone, and then he saves them. Thus double predestination does not separate people into two groups, but applies to every individual. Everyone is both Esau and Jacob. First they are convicted of their sin, in order that they can appreciate that their salvation comes entirely from Christ. (This is Karl Barth's interpretation of Rom., by the way, and is also ably defended by C.K.Barrett in his commentary on Romans.) There are several passages in other letters that suggest that this plan applies to all of mankind. The clearest in I Cor 15:20 ff. Remember that one common model that Paul uses for Christ is the second Adam. He says just as sin came to mankind from one man, so did the remedy for sin. But Adam's sin spread to *all* mankind. Did the second Adam's salvation? In Rom 5:12 ff this is not entirely clear. Paul certainly says that Christ more than makes up for Adam. But one could possibly view that he makes up in quality what he lacks in quantity. But in I Cor 15, it really seems likely that he meant the parallism to be complete: "For just as all people die because of their union with Adam, in the same way all will be raised to life because of their union with Christ. But each one will be raised in his proper order: Christ, first of all; then, at the time of his coming, those who belong to him. Then the end will come; Christ will overcome all." (I Cor 15:22-24) and it goes on to say that death will be defeated and eventually everything will be united under Christ's headship. It sounds to me like eventually God will defeat evil and cleanse all people. Those who "belong to Christ" come first, but eventually he will find a way to get to everyone. Col 1:20 and Eph 1:9-10 also talk about God's secret plan that eventually everything will come under Christ's headship. Some people believe that Christ's rule will be complete even if some people end up in hell suffering their just desserts. But I think Paul has in mind a more complete victory. There are also hints of a similar concept in I Pet 3:18-4:6. This talks about what the Apostle's Creed calls Christ's descent into Hell. I Pet says that Christ preached to those who were in Hell because they had rejected God. They were given in effect a second chance. I Pet 3 mentions specifically the people who were alive at the time of Noah and rejected God then. I Pet 4 may be interpreted more widely. In conclusion, this analysis suggests two modifications of the ideas of predestination. One is to realize that it is not taught in the abstract. At least in Rom (which is the primary Biblical reference for the concept) the hardening is done for a specific purpose, which is merciful, and it is temporary. Second is that one can see at least some hints that Paul and possibly Peter saw a secret hope that God did not plan for condemnation to be the last word. Both I Cor and I Pet suggest that a judgement does happen, and people who have not accepted Christ do suffer some sort of punishment. But there are signs that in the end God finds a way to redeem them. If this view is accepted, then one can apply double predestination to everyone, realizing that everyone is both judged because of sin and saved because of Christ.