Xref: utzoo unix-pc.general:3306 comp.sys.att:6988
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!bpa!manta!brant
From: brant@manta.pha.pa.us (Brant Cheikes)
Newsgroups: unix-pc.general,comp.sys.att
Subject: Re: Too much cross-posting?
Message-ID: <490@manta.pha.pa.us>
Date: 16 Jul 89 04:59:16 GMT
References: <674@whizz.uucp> <159@zorch.UU.NET> <696@whizz.uucp>
Organization: Soul of the Gnu Machine, Philadelphia
Lines: 60

I'm finding this debate increasingly offensive.  Bud Hovell is upset
that some unix-pc users might have to (gasp!) spend some of their own
money, time, and effort to exchange information with other unix-pc users
(as if the ability to do so were some kind of right).  The answer, says
Bud, is to merge unix-pc.all (in some form) into "mainstream Usenet."

Well, I am not going to get into a philsophical argument about what
Usenet is for and about, and why in my opinion unix-pc.all (in any
form) doesn't belong there.  Everyone has their own opinion, and few
really care to discuss the matter (e.g., me).  And such discussions
inevitably lead nowhere.

As far as I'm concerned, Bud has raised only one point worth
considering: the present unix-pc distribution is not getting the kind
of circulation it needs.  He rightly argues that (in this case) the
value of the newsgroups increase in proportion to the size of their
audience of unix-pc owners and users.  That much is beyond question.

Most people also seem to agree that comp.sys.att is not the
appropriate venue for unix-pc discussions.  The volume of unix-pc
discussion demands a distinct group or set of groups.  Thus Bud's
proposal.  I've already said that I think it's the wrong idea.
Nevertheless, to Bud I say this: it's time to put your money where
your mouth is.  Get this discussion out of these newsgroups and start
the ball rolling with a newgroup proposal in news.groups.  If you
don't know how, DO NOT post an article asking how this is done.
Rather, do your homework in news.announce.newusers.  If the proposal
wins, come back and we'll discuss the fate of the unix-pc hierarchy.

But now I'll tell you what I think the right solution is, why it's the
right solution, and why it's already in place.

Obviously, the people who currently do not receive unix-pc.all should
make an effort to get it, either by getting a feed (they're certainly
available) and running news on their unix-pc's, or by convincing their
news administrator to find a feed.  However, there are many people for
whom neither option exists, practically speaking.  They may not have
the skill, interest, time, or resources to run news at home, or their
only feed options may be too costly, or it may be impossible to
affect the newsfeed at their workplace.  Those people should not be
left out in the cold; those of us in the unix-pc distribution need
them as much as they need us.

For those folks, the solution is: join the unix-pc mailing list.
Scott Mueller maintains a gateway between unix-pc.* and e-mail.  Mail
sent to gateway get redistributed over unix-pc, and unix-pc articles
get sent to you by mail.  All you need is a reliable e-mail path to
Scott's machine.  The mailing list is the solution, and it's already
operating.  All it could use is a little advertising.  Then we can put
an end to all this cross-posting.

Sure, mailing lists are a bit more difficult to deal with than news
groups (although the ARPAnet folks have been using them happily for
years).  But they do work.  And I really do think it arrogant to expect
that 10,000+ sites, most with little or no interest in unix-pc's, should
spend THEIR money, time, and effort supporting OUR habits.
-- 
Brant Cheikes
University of Pennsylvania, Department of Computer and Information Science
brant@manta.pha.pa.us, brant@linc.cis.upenn.edu, bpa!manta!brant