Xref: utzoo unix-pc.general:3314 comp.sys.att:6994 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: unix-pc.general,comp.sys.att Subject: WD2010 group buy, call for ORDER and $$$ Message-ID: <20511@cup.portal.com> Date: 16 Jul 89 14:05:46 GMT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 393 Sigh. After spending over 6 hours attempting to get this posting out to all the individual respondents to my original postings, I'm frustrated. PORTAL, at a flat fee of $10/month, has a menu-driven interface that does (very nicely) what it was designed to do, but no access is provided to the underlying UNIX. There simply is NO "mailing-list" capability, and the few emails I've already sent out have been to addresses that bounce (esp. Bob Ames; since WHEN is "harvard" on a path between northern and southern California? Sheesh! I simply CANNOT afford to spend the next 6-8 hours re-uploading this file 158 times at 2400 baud to send ONE-BY-ONE individual email to each of the 158 people that responded. The original reason for requesting email response has been satisfied (see the posting below), so it seems best to post this to the unix-pc.general and comp.sys.att newsgroups as THE final call for participation. All details are in the last part of this posting. Because of the unexpected delays getting THIS posting out, I'll wait until Monday, July 24, 1989 for all checks to arrive. That is the cutoff date. Since US Mail takes about 2-3 days from the East Coast to the West Coast, this should be ample time to place your order and expect it to arrive here if you act promptly. I do not expect to repeat this offer. I'm sorry for the already-delayed posting of this, the final offer (#^%#%$%^ Usenet email bouncing AND the PORTAL limitations), and I will compare all orders that arrive against the email that I've received to date to be sure no-one gets left out. If you haven't sent email expressing your desire for the WD2010, no problem, as NOW is the time to send your order in. I will place the bulk order on the afternoon of the 24th, and I should receive the chips within 3-4 days, at which time I start sending them out to those who sent me their checks. Again, because this is THE "Call For Orders", you should use the US Mail to respond since you will NEED to send me a check; reasons detailed below. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ] ----------------------------Form Letter Posting------------------------------ Hello! All pricing details for the group buy of the WD2010 chips for the UNIXPC are now finalized. As I previously stated, the negotiated "raw" price per chip from the present vendor is almost $20 less than what I was able to arrange from Anthem. The "raw" price, however, does NOT include the costs of getting the chips to me (shipping, sales tax, etc.) and the additional shipping, packaging materials, mailing labels, etc. of getting the chips to YOU. What this "group buy" permits is the bulk purchase of the chips with all costs shared among the participants. This started as a venture by several members of the UNIXPC SIG of the AT&T Computer Users' Group, South Bay Chapter (Silicon Valley), who needed the chips for their own systems, and has blossomed into a correspondingly "good deal" for all UNIXPC owners/users reading the Usenet newsgroups; this is NOT a commercial operation and no-one (except the chip vendor, presumably! :-) is making a profit on the transaction. My postings asking you to respond have served the purpose of establishing a "ballpark" figure to give me a bargaining position in the negotiations with the vendor who IS sympathetic to computer user groups and to those owning "orphan" computers. There is no need to send further email stating your interest; THIS posting is THE call to respond by US Mail with your checks for the actual buy. I have to ask for cash in advance since I need to know the PRECISE quantity of chips to order, and I have to deliver a certified check to the chip vendor before receiving the chips. My plan is to order a FEW spare chips to have in reserve; the quantity of spares will be ONLY that needed to fill the last tube since the vendor won't "break" tubes (they are a large wholesale house and will NOT deal in onesies and twosies), so please don't expect there to be any chips at these prices a month from now. Payment will have to be in USA funds; personal checks preferred. I cannot handle credit card billing, so don't try! If you must use an (International) Money Order, please BE SURE it's something that I can process without hassle at my local branch of Bank of America; if the bank says "Huh? What's that?" then your order will NOT be filled and I'll have to return to you. Repeating: ALL prices quoted are in USA dollars and include everything needed to get the items to you in the USA. Please try to locate a USA mail drop if you're ordering from Canada, Mexico, or Europe (to keep things simple for me), or add whatever you know is appropriate for First Class mailing to your location. I can NOT handle foreign currency conversion; the nearest American Express office is, I believe, 45 miles away in San Francisco, and they charge an arm-and-a-leg (which is why I still have some CAN$40 from my last trip to Vancouver). With all the above said, the remainder of this posting contains: * WHAT'S AVAILABLE * HOW TO ORDER * ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS I'VE RECEIVED ================ WHAT'S AVAILABLE ================ Two items are available: the WD2010 chip itself, and the extended s4diag program (if you didn't get it from my net posting a few weeks ago). The WD2010 chip is the enhanced disk drive controller chip which, in the UNIXPC, will permit use of disk drives having more than 1024 cylinders. The WD2010 chip, by itself, will NOT permit use of drives possessing more than 8 heads; for THAT capability you need the P5.1 motherboard modification which is available from other sources such as ICUS (a set of instructions) and, soon, John Milton (a complete kit). With BOTH the WD2010 and the P5.1 modification, you can use, for example, a Maxtor XT2190 with your system; the Maxtor XT2190 drive has 15 heads and 1224 cylinders. A typical drive that benefits from the WD2010 is the Miniscribe 3085; this is a half-height, 5-1/4" drive, possessing 7 heads and 1170 cylinders which, when mounted in a 7300, gives the 7300 the same disk capacity as the Miniscribe 6085 drive does in the larger 3B1 models: 67MB. A list of drives known to function in the UNIXPC is periodically posted to the newsgroups, and you should restrict your buying decision to those drives unless you know what you're doing. Along with the chip purchase, I'll include instructions detailing the opening of your system, the removal of the existing WD1010 chip, the insertion of the WD2010 chip, the closing of your system, and brief instructions how to reformat with a larger drive. In all cases I've tested so far with the UNIXPC, the WD2010 is a pin-pin replacement for the "stock" WD1010 chip; if you desire, you could simply replace the WD1010 with the WD2010, do nothing else, and everything will operate as before. The WD2010 will NOT, per se, speed up your system; only a faster disk drive and/or additional RAM will make your system a screamer. I posted the extended s4diag software to the net recently. I hope you snarfed it as it came your way. This extended s4diag (i.e. the "Diagnostic Disk") has the necessary corrections permitting formatting, verification, and bad-block sparing of disks having > 8 heads and > 1024 cylinders; in ALL other respects it is identical to the "stock" diagnostic software. The "stock" s4diag gives the illusion of prepping a larger drive correctly, and its deceit is revealed ONLY when you attempt to make a file system on the drive (as when installing the Foundation Set). If you want a larger drive, you need BOTH the WD2010 chip and the extended s4diag (and possibly the P5.1 modification). If you were unable to capture the s4diag before it expired in news, and you positively cannot locate it at a site near you, I will make it available at cost (see HOW TO ORDER). ============ HOW TO ORDER ============ Send funds (as described above and detailed below) to: Thad Floryan 1522 Wistaria Lane Los Altos, CA 94022-7265 detailing precisely WHAT and HOW MANY you're ordering. Clearly PRINT or TYPE on your order the address to which you want the material sent; if you include a pre-printed mailing label(s), that would be greatly appreciated! All orders will be shipped by US Mail. Also include your Usenet email address in the event I need to contact you. Re: the WD2010 chips, I've already tested and discovered that I can put a max of four (4) into one mailing package. The chips will be in a sectioned anti-static tube and inserted into a Dennison POST-LITE (tm) bubble mailer. Since most people only want one or two, this is no problem; for those who want more than four (4) chips, the price list (below) reflects the additional costs. Re: an s4diag floppy, these will be separately mailed in a Dennison Floppy Disk Mailer. Please attempt to locate a copy of my recent posting before ordering the s4diag; I'm simply not equipped to do mass disk-duplication; several options are available as detailed in the price list. In the event you need to contact me in an EMERGENCY (please use your good judgment), I can be reached by telephone per: home: between 9PM PDT and 2AM PDT M-F, after 12noon PDT weekends: 415/961-5157 work: between 10AM PDT and ~7PM PDT M-F: 408/985-7100 "PDT" = Pacific Daylight Time (California), which is 3 hours earlier than EDT. If you call my home number daytime, you'll either get an answering machine and/ or the people who will answer would NOT be able to answer technical questions. If you call my work number, don't bother leaving a message if I'm not available since I should not use the office phone to return long-distance personal calls. If you have technical questions, I'd prefer you post to the newsgroup since the questions (and answers!) would probably be of interest to everyone. My Usenet address for email is: thad@cup.portal.com (OR)..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad Finally, I want to mention that the packing material required to ship the chips (and floppy(ies)) is NOT cheap. If you believe you can do better on any of the following prices, feel welcome to seek the items yourself; I'm not expecting to make a profit with this group buy, and I also do not intend to lose money! :-) WD2010 chips: QTY Total price 1 $30.00 1 chip @ $30 2 $59.00 1 chip @ $30, 2nd @ $29 3 $88.00 1 chip @ $30, 2nd & 3rd @ $29 4 $117.00 1 chip @ $30, 2nd-4th @ $29 If you want more than 4 chips, do modulo 4 arithmetic on the QTY for the pricing. For example, to order 6 chips, the price is $117 + $59 for a total of $176. The reason for this is the differential cost of the packing material and postage (by weight). By the time the chips get to me from the vendor, the "raw" price has been increased to ~$26.50. To that price I have to add additional packing, photocopy, postage, mailing label, saw blades (for sectioning the tubes), and other REAL costs, allowing a very small margin for error. If you want larger quantity AND you send ME everything needed to mail the chips to you (such that all I have to do is put the chips in a tube (or whatever), seal the package, and drop it off at the post office), I'm willing to reduce the price to $28 per chip. Note that it'll probably cost you MORE to send the return packaging to me than you'll save unless you're talking about more than 10 chips. "s4diag" diagnostic disk software: Please try to find "s4diag" in your newsgroups' directories. I'm really trying to discourage you ordering the floppy from me, but if you were unable to get it off the "net" and really need to order the disk, then each floppy will be sent in its own mailer, and the prices listed below are for quantity ONE: $5.00 if you want me to provide the floppy, mailer, etc. $4.00 if you send an already-formatted floppy (10 sectors/track) and I provide the mailer and postage. $1.00 if you send an already-formatted (10 sectors/track) floppy along with a self-addressed, stamped (45 cents) return floppy disk mailer such that all I have to do is make and verify the copy, put the disk in the mailer, and drop the package off at the post office. ================================== ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS I'VE RECEIVED ================================== First, though I know this is repetitious, it's clear that MANY people are simply NOT reading what's been already posted to the net by myself and others. The WD2010 upgrade, by itself, will ONLY permit operating a disk having more than 1024 cylinders. If you want to operate a disk having nine (9) or more heads, you MUST do the P5.1 motherboard modification. There are several "kits" available for the P5.1 modification (from other sources). One kit comprises a PAL, a socket, some jumper wires, and instructions. The "packet" from ICUS contains instructions ONLY for another P5.1 modification (a version not requiring a PAL, but, instead, common LS TTL parts) which also permits two hard drives to be operated on your UNIXPC. The "soon-to-be-available" kit from John Milton IS a true kit with all the parts for the P5.1 modification and multiple drive operation. Combining the WD2010 chip with any of the above "kits" will permit you to operate very large drives on your UNIXPC. You MUST use the enhanced s4diag for EITHER/BOTH >1024 cylinders OR >8 heads. Two cautions I feel I must repeat: 1) don't install anything in your system unless you've "comfortably" backed up your HD and all its files, and 2) do NOT attempt to install a new hard disk unless you've access to (at least) the Foundation Set floppies. You need the Foundation Set material to build a file system and bring up (at least) a minimal UNIX. If you bought a UNIXPC with the OS already installed on the HD and you don't have the floppies, then you probably shouldn't be tinkering with your system. Now, on to the questions and answers. Please note that answers to "general" questions concerning the WD2010 and this "group buy" appear in the "WHAT'S AVAILABLE" (above). Some email contained questions concerning other matters which I'll NOW finally be able to privately answer since the "search and discovery" mission re: the WD2010 has been completed! 1. Will the WD2010 work with all UNIXPCs? Probably. I've tested the WD2010 on all four of my systems (three 7300 with early date codes, and one 3B1 with a later production code). All of my systems identify themselves as either "P3..P5" or "P5.1" when booted; if your system is "something else", then I cannot give any assurances. One of my systems was a real old 512kRAM/10MB HD; it took the WD2010 without any problems and handled a Miniscribe 3085 properly. 2. Will the larger drives work with my kernel? Probably. I've tested ONLY 3.51 and 3.51a. It appears that as long as the HD was properly formatted, verified, and bad-block spared using the enhanced s4diag along with the WD2010, the UNIXPC kernel will operate just fine. I deliberately ran one system's filesystem freespace down to nothing to assure myself that all cylinders' data was properly accounted for by the software (it was! :-) 3. ... concern about the co-existence of the WD2010 chip and the various P5.1 modifications ... All these upgrades are complementary. You can choose to do ONLY what you need to do. For example, if you want to install a Miniscribe 3085 drive, you only NEED the WD2010 chip. If you want to use a Maxtor 1140 drive, you only NEED the P5.1. The Miniscribe 3085 has 7 heads and 1170 cylinders; the Maxtor 1140 has 15 heads and 918 cylinders. You'll also need the enhanced s4diag for either the WD2010 or the P5.1 4. Is the WD2010 available mailorder? I haven't seen it in any catalogs? This group buy IS the "mail order"! :-) True, I haven't seen the WD2010 chip offered ANYPLACE that's available to the "consumer", and I've been looking for over 18 months. The only sources are the large electronics distributors who simply will NOT deal with small orders, or if they can be "persuaded", will have a MINIMUM order ($$$) that simply prices the chip out of reach. Some places I've checked will charge you $100 to buy one chip; they'll also charge you the same $100 to buy TWO chips. Buy three chips, and you'll get them for $43.20 each, for a total of $129.60 *PLUS* any taxes, shipping and handling. Price tiers typically break at 1-99, 100-499, 500-999, 1000-4999, etc. The ONE chip I bought at $10.50 from ACE was a fluke; ACE is a surplus house that buys surplus and/or auctioned-off inventory, and they only had the one chip with no expectation of stocking more. 5. Do I have to buy the WD2010 if I only want the s4diag floppy? Do I have to buy the s4diag floppy if I only want the WD2010? NO to both questions. Both items are available separately. You don't NEED the s4diag unless you expect to add a larger disk (having either more than 8 heads and/or more than 1024 cylinders). If you want the P5.1 mod (more heads), get the s4diag from the same source (e.g. ICUS or (soon) John Milton). You don't NEED the WD2010 unless your disk has more cylinders. 6. Will the new chip activate the other 3 heads on my 11-head hard disk? NO. For the >8 head upgrade, you want the P5.1 motherboard modification which is available from other sources. 7. Can I buy one of these chips and just start using a 100MB drive? Depends, but it's very unlikely given the geometry of the available drives of which I'm aware. The larger drives "tend" to have more heads before they have more cylinders. Consider the following table showing the "raw" formatted data capacities of some drives that "can" be used with the UNIXPC (note that the UNIXPC only "uses" 16 sectors/track with the 17th sector being used as a spare due to the 1024-byte filesystem): MB = heads x cyls x 17 sectors/track x .512 71.3 8 1024 (Miniscribe 6085 (this is the 3B1 67MB)) 71.3 8 1024 (Maxtor XT1085) 62.4 7 1024 (Miniscribe 3085 WITHOUT the WD2010) 71.3 7 1170 (Miniscribe 3085 WITH the WD2010) 63.9 8 918 (Maxtor XT1140 WITHOUT P5.1) 119.8 15 918 (Maxtor XT1140 WITH P5.1) 71.3 8 1024 (Maxtor XT2190 WITHOUT WD2010 and WITHOUT P5.1) 85.2 8 1224 (Maxtor XT2190 WITH WD2010 and WITHOUT P5.1) 133.7 15 1024 (Maxtor XT2190 WITHOUT WD2010 and WITH P5.1) 159.8 15 1224 (Maxtor XT2190 WITH WD2010 and WITH P5.1) In this table, the Miniscribe 3085 and the Maxtor XT2190 need WD2010. In this table, the Maxtor XT1140 and XT2190 need the P5.1 mod. 8. What is the purpose of the group buy? Lower price, or is it difficult to get single quantities? Lower price AND the inability to get single quantities. 9. Is the s4diag available from "The STORE!"? NO, to the best of my knowledge. 10. Will the WD2010 chip work in the Convergent Technologies Miniframe? Is the 2010 pin-pin compatible with the 1010? Re: the Miniframe: I don't know. A friend has one (a Miniframe), but I cannot just go over there and open up that system! :-) I *DID* once briefly examine the motherboard when the system was opened up, but I cannot vouch for the chips used. Since it has been claimed that the Miniframe is binary-file-compatible with the UNIXPC, my *GUESS* would be yes, but I'd advise you to open your system and SEE what chip is being used. In the UNIXPC systems I've tested, the WD2010 is pin-pin compatible with the WD1010. The WD2010 has on-board ECC circuitry which the WD1010 does not have, and it also uses/supplies a signal on pin 4; in the UNIXPC these ever-so-slight differences do NOT cause any problem with (at least) a "P3..P5" motherboard. 11. What is the formatted capacity of the 3085? It's 1/2 height, does that mean it's possible to stick a couple of them into the 67MB-model chassis? For the capacities, see the table (above). The combination of TWO 3085 drives in the 67B-model chassis (3B1) will overtax the power supply and is NOT recommended; remember that the +12 is also used by the floppy and some other circuitry, and you SHOULD have a safety margin. If you could somehow put a heftier power supply in the system, AND develop a safe double-disk mounting bracket for the alread-cramped space, you might be able to get away with it. But my recommendation is to mount a second hard drive in an external chassis/case. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]