Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ncar!tank!mimsy!fnord.umiacs.umd.edu!steve
From: steve@fnord.umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: DECstation 2100 versus SPARCstation 1
Message-ID: <18784@mimsy.UUCP>
Date: 27 Jul 89 21:15:41 GMT
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Reply-To: steve@umiacs.umd.edu (Steve D. Miller)
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[ This is in response to a response to my 7/11 product announcement info.
The response to my response appeared on Sun-Spots. ]

   List prices (from the July 11 DEC system pricing catalog) for a reasonable
minimalist DECstation 2100 configuration are:

	DECstation 2100, 15" mono display,
	8MB memory, mouse, keyboard, SCSI
	controller, Ethernet controller,
	and so on (everything for a
	reasonable diskless system):			$7950

	Add 332MB disk (RZ55):				$6500

	Add 104MB disk (RZ23):				$2400

	Add TK50Z tape:					$3500

	Software and docs:				$2004

   Ultrix will not, in theory, run using the RZ23 as the system disk.  What
that means is that it's harder to build a standalone system on such a disk,
and what you end up with, you may not like.  I'd bet that the same is true
for a SPARCstation 1 with 105MB disk (though maybe the shared libraries get
you enough to make the difference).  If I was buying a standalone system,
I'd go for a 300+MB disk, no matter whether or not I was getting a SS1 or a
DS2100.  The 104/105MB disks are really best as paging-only devices.

   Also note that this is 'list' price; I'm not sure what sort of warranty
that includes.

   So, for a DS2100 system, we have $7950+($6500|$2400)+$3500+$2004, which
comes to either $19954 or $15854, depending on how close to the edge you
like to run with your disk.  This assumes that your software price is
correct; it sounds right, but I don't know for sure.  You certainly don't
have to add the monitor price to the base sticker price.  Let's look at a
similar SPARCstation 1:

	SS1, 17" mono, 8MB memory,
	mouse, keyboard, SCSI, Ether;
	reasonable diskless box:			$8995

	Add 327MB disk:					$5600

	Add 104MB disk:					$2000

	Add tape:					$1600

	Add software+docs:				$300+$450

   We get $8995+($5600|$2000)+1600+$750.  This comes to $16945 or $13345 for
a full system.  So, if you're only buying one, you might indeed be better
off with the SPARCstation 1.  (Geez, DEC charges a lot for software, and I
think anyone of sound mind buys TK50s only under duress...)

   If you're buying this in bulk (like I am), and you drop off the tape and
software/doc pricing, the cost is $14595 or $10995 for a SS1, and $14450 or
$10350 for the 2100.  In this case, the DEC system is cheaper (though once
you factor in the warranty stuff and the monitor size difference, they're
probably priced pretty identically).

   Depending on where you are, if you're a university, you may get
substantially better discounts from DEC than from Sun.  Plus, we at least
have a better relationship (I feel) with DEC than we do with Sun right now.
(Heck, until we get a source license executed with Sun, we won't buy the
old, obsolete products, and we can't buy the new and interesting ones...
and the sales rep didn't even return my call about sources!)  Your mileage
may vary; I know of one other university whose DEC reps (as of the last SUG
conference) won't talk to them, but whose relationship with Sun is pretty
solid.

   For most people, I think that the SPARCstation/DECstation decision is one
that can go either way.  They're both nice machines, after all.  For both
DEC and for Sun, this is a new way to be doing business.

	-Steve

Spoken: Steve Miller    Domain: steve@mimsy.umd.edu    UUCP: uunet!mimsy!steve
Phone: +1-301-454-1808  USPS: UMIACS, Univ. of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742