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From: peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.groups
Subject: Re: Changes to Alternative Newsgroup Hierarchies
Message-ID: <5205@ficc.uu.net>
Date: 23 Jul 89 12:56:24 GMT
References: <7429@medusa.cs.purdue.edu> <5202@ficc.uu.net> <1641@uw-entropy.ms.washington.edu>
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Lines: 74

In article <1641@uw-entropy.ms.washington.edu>, charlie@mica.stat.washington.edu (Charlie Geyer) writes:
> In article <5202@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes:
>   [quoting something or other, probably from gnu.gcc]

You could try reading the references line. Or the title. This is from the
gnu.* charter as described in the regular "Changes to Alternative Newsgroup
Hierarchies" posting.

[see <5202@ficc.uu.net> for the rest of it]

> You're kidding, right?

Wrong.

> "Strictly speaking, gnu.* is not part of UseNet."

Right. gnu.* just happens to use the same transport medium, machines, news-
readers, etc... it rides on the back of Usenet. But strictly speaking it isn't
part of it.

> But, this fact notwithstanding, they should abide by the 
> Spirit of UseNet,

Yes, I think so. These groups have all the signs of being newsgroups. Not
mailing lists... newsgroups. Not a local group, but a global newsgroup.

> i.e., whatever Peter da Silva thinks UseNet should be.

Well, a quick check shows that I'm not one of the folks that publishes the
guidelines. I did run the vote for comp.unix.i386. I do try to develop new
guidelines (for example, the use of Single Transferrable Votes to determine
newsgroup names), but I don't pretend to any special authority.

> Of course the real UseNet abides by no such rules,

Let's see... group creation guidelines. Rules for interacting with the Usenet
community. Uh, huh.

Even *alt* doesn't allow private rantzines.

> Whether you agree with Stallman that Apple Computer Corp and their
> look and feel lawsuit are completely un-American and a threat to
> the world of computers as we know it,

I agree, Apple's activities are reprehensible. Stallman's goals are most
laudable. His ways and means, however, are only slightly less distressing
than Apple's. If he's not sufficiently confident about the rightness of
them, he should change them rather than trying to squash any dissenting
voice.

This change (yes, change) in the gnu.* charter is an example.

> the GNU project does have a
> right to distribute their mailing lists as they see fit.

They're not mailing lists.

They are distributed as newsgroups, listed in the alternate newsgroup
posting, and show up all over the country wherever people are liberal or
careless in their sys files. There is no attempt made to monitor or to
control distribution.

Mailing lists, on the other hand, are distributed privately, listed as mailing
lists, and only show up where explicitly invited.

Basically, I think this change is a bad thing. I think it should be discussed
in an orderly fashion (i.e. without flaming... you think you can do that?).
Perhaps gnu.*, alt.*, and so on should further divorce themselves from UseNet
proper.
-- 
Peter da Silva, Xenix Support, Ferranti International Controls Corporation.
Business: peter@ficc.uu.net, +1 713 274 5180. | "filling a PEZ dispenser -
Personal: peter@sugar.hackercorp.com.   `-_-' |  it's not just a skill, it's
Quote: Have you hugged your wolf today?  'U`  |  an ART." -- brodie@moocow.UUCP