Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!wugate!wupost!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!anu-news!list From: icsu6000@MTSUNIX1.BITNET (Mathisen) Newsgroups: news.software.anu-news Subject: Re: Usability of SLP (was Re: News V5.9 availability?) Message-ID: <8907202351.AA15388@caesar.cs.montana.edu> Date: 20 Jul 89 23:51:42 GMT Sender: ANU-NEWS Discussion Reply-To: Mathisen Lines: 73 Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (6.5 4/17/89) In-Reply-To: Bob Sloane's message of Jul 20, 4:54pm > > Tim Russell writes: > >> what problems have you had with SLP diffs? Why should we depend on a progr > > > > I've had the problem that patches have failed, mangled up my files, and NOT > > TOLD me that they did so. Patch lets you know, as I said. > > This problem is addressed in the command file I posted to do updates. Did you > look at it? It checksums the input file and makes sure it matches the original Actually, this happened to me also... I FTP'd the original distribution from Kuhub, and applied the update procedure, and I couldn't compile the result... This on a MVAX, running VMS 4.7 > > >> that is unsupported for VMS when we have a program that works and IS > >> supported? How do we know that this patch program will be any better than S > >> diffs? I think we should stick with something that is a supported product > and > >> that everyone has already. This is odd, we insist only on using DEC supplied supported tools to manage a non-DEC supplied non-Supported package... Patch could easily be supplied with the News software, and then everybody would have it too. > > > > That's one advantage that SLP has, I agree: everyone has it. However, it's > > a small matter, I would think, to stick patch in with NEWS. I agree... Patch is a far superior method of applying changes to code, with Fuzz factors and other options, including the context-sensitivity, it's a big win... My experience with SLP isn't great, but it distinctly reminds me of receiving changes to Unix source as ed scripts... There are better ways Now somebody just needs to port patch over to VMS. On to other things... 1) Maybe what I'm looking for is in the NEWS software, but how about some statistics tools for the NEWS software, including things like arbitron, volume measurements, who is reading what groups, etc etc ad nauseum... 2) I would like to see a Unix rn-style interface... I've tried several news readers under Unix, and for mucking through a volume of news, nothing beats it. (I haven't worked with NN yet.) The interface with ANU-NEWS, doesn't appear conducive to cranking through 1000+ articles a day. Startup time appears long, and moving around is kind of a pain waiting for news to redraw the screen for everything... Using TPU as a pager seems to be real slow. (I should mention I only maintain the VMS news system here, I read all mine from Unix, so I haven't delved into all the nooks and crannies that might make this easier). Plus you only get appx 18 lines of text, although maybe this is reconfigurable. 3) Maybe a little more documentation on installing the NNTP interfaces could be provided... I never did get it working between my Ultrix 2.3 system and my VMS machine, I had to drop back to Batching the news up on the ultrix side, setting up a news proxy, and then copying the newsbatch files over to the news directories. I'm sure it's probably just some stupid little thing that I'm doing wrong, but I have a lot less VMS experience than Unix, and my Unix stuff works great... Plus I have no VMS manuals, only online documentation, so that hurts too. (Campus is too cheap to buy manuals). 4) Has there been any thought into breaking up the news stuff into different parts, such as $NEWS being the news reader, and maybe a different package to do the management stuff? This is just a thought. Maybe it would speed things up a bit, I'm not sure. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Jaye Mathisen,systems manager Internet: icsu6000@caesar.cs.montana.edu| | 410 Roberts Hall BITNET: icsu6000@mtsunix1.bitnet | | Dept. of Computer Science UUCP: utah-gr!mts-cs!icsu6000 | | Montana State University PHONE: (406) 994-{4780,3931} | | Bozeman MT 59717 "Digital doesn't have cost-competitive technology. -- | | When it is desparate to keep a position in a market it sues -- Dal Allan | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+