Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!ginosko!uunet!wugate!wupost!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!sloane From: SLOANE@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) Newsgroups: news.software.anu-news Subject: Re: Usability of SLP (was Re: News V5.9 availability?) Message-ID: <6116@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: 21 Jul 89 14:05:46 GMT References: <8907202351.AA15388@caesar.cs.montana.edu> Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Lines: 83 In article <8907202351.AA15388@caesar.cs.montana.edu>, Mathisen writes: > Actually, this happened to me also... I FTP'd the original distribution from > Kuhub, and applied the update procedure, and I couldn't compile the result... > This on a MVAX, running VMS 4.7 It would have been nice if you had mentioned this to me. I actually do try to make the update procedures work, despite all the flak I have been taking. Did you use the original source from kuhub? Several other people have managed to use this procedure without problems. It is difficult to fix problems that aren't reported. > This is odd, we insist only on using DEC supplied supported tools to manage > a non-DEC supplied non-Supported package... Patch could easily be > supplied with the News software, and then everybody would have it too. I don't "insist on using only DEC supplied supported tools," I just insist on using tools that exist. Patch doesn't exist for VMS as far as I can tell, and I have looked on all of the DECUS tapes from 1981 to 1988, as well as several FTP sites of VMS software. > I agree... Patch is a far superior method of applying changes to code, with > Fuzz factors and other options, including the context-sensitivity, it's a > big win... My experience with SLP isn't great, but it distinctly reminds > me of receiving changes to Unix source as ed scripts... There are better ways > Now somebody just needs to port patch over to VMS. Exactly. I have been working on getting the mailing list/newsgroup gateway going, counting votes for the newsgroup creation, recovering from a trashed disk, and doing my regular work, too. I am getting a little tired of people saying patch is god's gift to computers. IT DOESN'T EXIST ON VMS. IF YOU WANT IT, YOU WILL HAVE TO PORT IT YOURSELF, BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE TIME. Is that clear enough??? > On to other things... > > 1) Maybe what I'm looking for is in the NEWS software, but how about > some statistics tools for the NEWS software, including things like arbitron, > volume measurements, who is reading what groups, etc etc ad nauseum... This is something I have been wanting myself. > 2) I would like to see a Unix rn-style interface... I've tried several > news readers under Unix, and for mucking through a volume of news, nothing > beats it. (I haven't worked with NN yet.) The interface with ANU-NEWS, doesn't > appear conducive to cranking through 1000+ articles a day. Startup time appears > long, and moving around is kind of a pain waiting for news to redraw the > screen for everything... Using TPU as a pager seems to be real slow. > (I should mention I only maintain the VMS news system here, I read all mine > from Unix, so I haven't delved into all the nooks and crannies that might > make this easier). Plus you only get appx 18 lines of text, although maybe > this is reconfigurable. There is a certain philosophical difference between unix and VMS. Unix program tend to be small, fast, and obscure, while VMS programs tend to be bigger, slower, and easier to use. You apparently belong to the unix school of thought, while I belong to the VMS school, and apparently so does Geoff. If you want to use rn, write it, or use unix. Please do try to change NEWS, because I happen to think it is already a LOT better than rn in many ways. > 3) Maybe a little more documentation on installing the NNTP interfaces > could be provided... I never did get it working between my Ultrix 2.3 system > and my VMS machine, I had to drop back to Batching the news up on the > ultrix side, setting up a news proxy, and then copying the newsbatch files > over to the news directories. I'm sure it's probably just some stupid little > thing that I'm doing wrong, but I have a lot less VMS experience than Unix, > and my Unix stuff works great... Plus I have no VMS manuals, only online > documentation, so that hurts too. (Campus is too cheap to buy manuals). I agree that the documentation needs more work. I have it down on my list of projects, but it isn't very high on the list right now. > 4) Has there been any thought into breaking up the news stuff into different > parts, such as $NEWS being the news reader, and maybe a different package to > do the management stuff? This is just a thought. Maybe it would speed > things up a bit, I'm not sure. I doubt that this would make the news reader any faster. From what I can tell, NEWS is I/O bound, and reducing memory size wouldn't help that much. +-------------------+-------------------------------------+------------------+ | Bob Sloane \Internet: SLOANE@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU/Anything I said is | | Computer Center \ BITNET: SLOANE@UKANVAX.BITNET / my opinion, not my | | University of Kansas\ AT&T: (913) 864-0444 / employer's. | +-----------------------+-----------------------------+----------------------+