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From: mm@cloud9.Stratus.COM (Mike Mahler)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Bird diets
Message-ID: <6603@cloud9.Stratus.COM>
Date: 24 Jul 89 17:40:35 GMT
References: <6514@cloud9.Stratus.COM> <1292@intercon.UUCP> <1295@intercon.UUCP>
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., Marlboro, MA
Lines: 76

In article <1295@intercon.UUCP>, ooblick@intercon.uucp (Mikki Barry) writes:
> 
> In article <6514@cloud9.Stratus.COM>, mm@cloud9.Stratus.COM (Mike Mahler) writes:
> > Give me a year with some Nekton, FRESH fruits and vegetables and seed
> >     and I'm sure my birds would look just as healthy AND their stool would
> >     be NORMAL for a bird.  Brown stools are not normal for everyday
> >     excretions and brown runny stools are what you get with pellets.
> 
> My nape's stools are red and quite firm (kellogs pellets do this) while
> my wild caught cockatoo who prefers purina has green firm stools.  
> I pay my avian vet well for her opinions.  Especially since my nape was in
> very sorry shape when I bought him.

    How much you pay your vet shouldn't influence what you feed your birds
    or be a judgement of the soundness of the advice you receive. I say
    this more as a general guideline for everyone than relating to you
    solely and mostly because it's a sore spot with me.  You can often
    gain ALOT of knowledge the "old fashined way" (research into books
    and trial and error).  If pellets are your bag, than fine, but please
    don't tout them as the end all beat all of bird food and certainly
    don't use them just because they are easier to clean up after.
    
>  He was a first bird and I knew very
> very little about what to look for.  When he was cultured, the nape had
> multiple avian bacterial infections and was very malnourished.  He had 
> been receiving seeds and nekton exclusively.  I'm not saying that he has
> improved solely because he is on a pelleted diet.

     Sorry Mikki, but it DOES sound like (to me at least) that
     you ARE indeed touting pellets as the "grand saviour" of the
     Parrot World.

>  However, since my wild
> cockatoo had been on seeds, nekton, and fresh fruits and vegetables (which
> he had been fed for a year before I bought him) and is now on pellets and
> has undergone considerable improvements in appearance, I *can* say that I'm
> glad I switched him over.

     There are MANY reasons that might contribute to your Nape
     AND your Cockatoo doing better.  In the nape's case it
     sounds like better care in general would have yielded
     excellent results while in the cock's case, it's even
     possible for a moult to cause the appearance of the bird to
     change for the better.  IF your cock is doing SO much better
     on pellets, I'll bet that he wan't getting full nutrition
     from his previous diet and NOT BECAUSE seeds are inherently
     deficient in vitamins (old seed is) but because birds can
     pick and choose within the seed which leaves the burden of
     nutrition up to the owner by finding which seeds are NOT
     eaten and forcing the birds to eat these or substituting
     foods that contain similiar nutrative value.  Pellets are a
     quick fix in my opinion and often make up for a wrong that
     should be rights the RIGHT way.  This is why my birds get a
     MIX of seeds and pellets (and what do you know, I didn't
     have to mortgage my vet since she happens to agree with me
     8-).

    By the way, if the Nekton was given by water, I don't consider
    it to be given to the bird.  They don't drink enough to get enough.

> On the other hand, a breeder that I admire very much feeds her babies
> kellogs fortified seeds (no sunflower mix) as well as fruits and veggies
> (and nekton) and also has beautiful birds.  She says that a good fortified
> seed mix (usually fortified with pellets and pellet powder like the kellogs
> seeds are) will give birds good nutrition.  Probably quite a bit has to do
> with exactly what is in the seeds, and what mix of seeds to other foods
> you give.

    "Quite a bit" is an understatement.  EVERYTHING has to do with what is
    in the seed and what kind of seed it is and how FRESH it is.

    I reccommend Topper Seed from Topper Bird Ranch in North Carolina.

    Anyone can send mail for the phone number or you can find it in Bird Talk.

    Michael