Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!husc6!encore!cloud9!mm
From: mm@cloud9.Stratus.COM (Mike Mahler)
Newsgroups: rec.birds
Subject: Re: Bird diets
Message-ID: <6633@cloud9.Stratus.COM>
Date: 26 Jul 89 01:06:57 GMT
References: <6514@cloud9.Stratus.COM> <1292@intercon.UUCP> <1295@intercon.UUCP> <1556@garcon.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., Marlboro, MA
Lines: 88

In article <1556@garcon.cso.uiuc.edu>, mcclaren@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Tim McClarren) writes:
> 
> I'm a bit confused at this point as you are saying that seed is just as
> nutritional as pellets.

     What *I SAID* was that a FULL diet partially comprised of
     seed will provide the elements necessary for the birds diet.
     I never said a seed only diet will do this and in fact
     mentioned profusely that I feed my birds a mix of seed,
     pellets and a variety of other natural foods.  No ONE food
     (and I DO consider pellets ONE food) can provide ALL the
     nutritional requirements a bird needs.  This we know.  What
     we do NOT know is the nutritional requirements of parrots
     and I'd be highly suspicious of an avian vet that told me 
     otherwise.
       
>  That's all fine and dandy, but you seem awfully
> hard set against people feeding pellets to their birds and haven't said
> anything as to why.  I see nothing wrong with feeding a bird pellets.

     I'm not hard set against anyone feeding their birds whatever
     they want, but I am hard set against someone expounding the
     merits of a pellet ONLY diet (veggies/fruits excluded).
     Until there's PROOF that long term feeding of a pellet only
     diet is not detrimental to birds GENERAL LONG TERM health
     (think about how little time pellets have been available
     commercially) I'll avoid it as the only nutritive factor in
     my birds diet.  Did you ever wonder why there are now 4
     kinds of pellets in my local store with each one containing
     an entirely different formula? Personally, I care too much
     about my birds overall health to experiment with a food because
     it's more convenient and/or advertised as an all-in-one food.

> By simple mathematics, if the seed contains less nutrients, then
> the bird will be getting less nutrients if it eats the same amount of
> seed as it would pellets, provided they go through similar digestive
> processes.

    And provided they are given a seed only diet.  I never suggested
    such a silly idea.

>  Also, your argument about Nekton fed given in water doesn't
> make sense.

    That's ok.  Neither does your following argument.  8-}

>  If I put enough Nekton in the water (which is a VERY small
> amount, incidentally), then it doesn't matter how much water the bird
> drinks, he'll get enough in the first gulp.  Note however, that I don't
> use this method nor recommend it.

     First off, you contradict yourself.  You devise a method for
     administering vitamins and then go on to say that you don't
     use the method NOR recommend it.  Analogically, I could say
     that I don't know how much oil my car will need so I'll
     overfill it (which is very harmful to the engine) to make
     sure it gets as much as it needs.  Sprinkle small amounts on
     the food, dust the food with Superpreen or use a fortified
     seed like Topper and you're doing much better.

> I don't think 'over-vitamining' a  bird is any healthier.  
> Just have to figure out how much water your
> bird drinks, use a proportionate amount of Nekton.

     You may not be aware of this but birds NEVER drink the same
     amount of water hour to hour (much less day to day).  There
     is NO WAY you can tell how much your bird will drink nor how
     much vitamins your birds are getting when they are added to
     the water (SOME birds WON'T drink the water if there's
     vitamins in it which is another reason not to put vitamins
     in water since it's too hard to tell how much water is
     missing and whether it's been downed by the bird or it just
     ook a small bath in it).  Because of this you are making a
     contradictory remark.  You might WELL be "overvitamining"
     your bird.


    Like I said, a religious issue.  I'm sure that we all care about these
    birds in general, not just our own which is why we get so concerned
    over what everyone feeds their birds since no one is sure what's best.
    Certainly I would never claim I know all things about parrot diets, but
    I can safely say that I don't think any vet or food company does
    either and don't believe that anyone should be suckered into thinking
    that they do either.

    So how about this, you feed your birds what you think is
    right and I'll do the same and wish the best for you and your
    bird(s).