Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: mls@cbnewsm.att.com (michael.l.siemon) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: hagia sophia, or the gender of God Message-ID: Date: 22 Jul 89 21:24:06 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 72 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Prem Subrahmanyam writes: In other places the Holy Spirit is referred to as the Spirit of Christ. Since Jesus was a man, it is only logical to believe that the Holy Spirit is somehow male in gender (of course, not in human terms of gender). So, Mr. Wingate, you are in error to believe that the Holy Spirit is a She...Scripture stands against you in this, or will you say that some other "truth" or "tradition" reveals otherwise? You are trying to have it boths ways -- to deny that human gender is relevant (you say, "of course, not in human terms") and yet to insist on a distinction that we only comprehend in human terms, however metaphorical their application. Biologists can define male/female in a way purely determined by reproductive function; beyond that all we have is the "human terms" in which we interact with each other in human society. And both biologically and socially, this is complex. If one were to make God a subject of biological study, and take seriously the eternal procreation of the second person of the Trinity by the first, then biologists would normally conclude that the Godhead is either asexual or female, not male. I take this as a _reductio ad absurdum_ saying that our only justification for gender-language about God is as metaphorical extension of human interpersonal language. There may be theological meaning in our being created male and female "in the image of God," but we apprehend that meaning dimly, in the mirror of our own human understanding (or all too likely, *mis*understanding) of gender. I, for one, see no reason the Spirit of Christ (an expression that seems to me slightly prejudicial; for Eastern Orthodoxy, the Spirit procedes only from the Father, not from the Son) has to be "male." I assume your "only logical" is a manner of speaking, since you give no argument for it, logical or otherwise. The one scriptural reference you give does indeed have Jesus comparing himself to a mother hen (Matt.23:37 || Luke 13:34). It is worth noting that this is one of a number of passages scholars take to be drawing on the rich Wisdom tradition of Judaism contemporary with Jesus. What is even more interesting is that in such cases Matthew has a tendency to *identify* Wisdom with Christ. For example, Luke 11:49-50 has "Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,' that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation." while Matthew's parallel, in 23:34, clearly adapting this same tradition to the early Christian mission, has Jesus speak: "Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town." Now, the Wisdom figure (in Proverbs, Ecclesiasticus and elsewhere in the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha) is *always* personified as feminine. If we take this seriously and we adopt a Trinitarian position, we need to identify feminine Wisdom with one of the persons of the Trinity. We can follow Matthew and make the identification with Christ, who thereby becomes feminine (especially in the pre-existent Christ before Incarnation) or we can follow up the association with sending/inspiring the prophets and make Wisdom another, somewhat poetic, way of speaking of the Spirit. Take your choice; either Christ is feminine or the Spirit is. Both of these identifications have been made -- Hagia Sophia in the Greek tradition is normally assimilated to Christ; insofar as modern spirituality deals with the matter at all (versus trying to ridicule or ignore it) there is some tendency to say Wisdom == Spirit. I follow this latter course, and so you will find me, at times when I decide to make a point of it, calling God the Holy Spirit She. -- Michael L. Siemon The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; cucard!dasys1!mls and you say "Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, att!sfbat!mls a friend of tax collectors and sinners." And standard disclaimer yet, Wisdom is justified by all her children.