Xref: utzoo unix-pc.general:3336 comp.sys.att:7016
Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!watmath!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!apple!ames!zorch!pacbell!safari!whizz!bbh
From: bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell)
Newsgroups: unix-pc.general,comp.sys.att
Subject: Re: Too much cross-posting?
Summary: I give, guys - you're right.
Message-ID: <706@whizz.uucp>
Date: 18 Jul 89 22:11:52 GMT
References: <674@whizz.uucp> <240@gnosys.UUCP> <1989Jul7.052540.7258@eci386.uucp> <20239@cup.portal.com> <694@whizz.uucp> <2797@ditka.UUCP>
Reply-To: bbh@whizz.UUCP (Bud Hovell)
Organization: McCormick & Hovell, Inc.
Lines: 81

In article <2797@ditka.UUCP> kls@ditka.UUCP (Karl Swartz) writes:
>In article <694@whizz.uucp> bbh@whizz.UUCP (Bud Hovell) writes:

>Bud, *many* sites (including both of mine, ditka and royko) offer a
>feed of the unix-pc groups to anybody who asks.  These offers have
>been expressed many times in this newsgroup and comp.sys.att.  That
>hardly constitutes blackballing anybody or keeping it elite.

Sorry, I blew it - no smiley, again. -------> :-) 

>>Or is it intended that the
>>unix-pc.* group(s) are a 'private network' which is mostly available only
>>to people who are willing to jump thru the necessary hoops to finally get a
>>feed?
>
>Do you expect Digital (for example) to carry newsgroups which they
>care not one whit about across the country for you?  Do you expect
>Tektronix to pull such groups to Portland for you?  True, this does
>happen in many cases, but whining because somebody else won't pick
>up the tab for you hardly seems just.

This seems to be a common conclusion from my posting(s), in spite of the
fact that I believe I made it manifestly clear that we do *not* have the problem
of getting a unix-pc.* feed. Other people clearly do. My argument had nothing
to do with obtaining a "free ride" - unless you count your USENET feed as
"free" also. It isn't. Putting the unix-pc groups on USENET isn't going to
make them "free". Do you see the word "free" stated in any of my postings?

We have a *very* reliable feed (one step from pacbell via safari - thank you,
Dave! :-), and pass unix-pc.* on to a local hub (bucket) which is *very* much
larger than we are, and which also gets the unix-pc* feed from ditka. 

{Sidebar: Some months ago, I directly asked Dave about assisting with long-
distance charges for getting unix-pc up from pacbell, and he demurred. If he
changes his mind, the offer is still open, as I'm certain he knows.]

I do mark safari DEAD to avoid sending mail thru Dave's site, since other paths
of transmission are much lower cost, going by TB rather than OBM. If this is
a netsin, then please explain to me the logic of using smail routings to keep
total path cost to the minimum. Or is this logic *also* to be actively rejected
when applied to the unix-pc.net?

We cross-feed to bucket primarily to hasten distribution, since we sometimes
get unix-pc to bucket faster than bucket gets it from ditka, owing (I assume)
to minor differences in propogation. It also means that bucket has redundant
backup if one of the two feeding sites goes down for brief periods. It's a
small contribution, admittedly, and not remotely on a par with what you and
other unix-pc.net.folks support.

[If anyone wants to get unix-pc.* directly from us, we'd be glad to oblige.
As it is, we cannot offer high-speed transmission without buying a TB and an
expansion board to provide more serial ports (we have a terminal). For now, 
the OBM is it. At night, we also have alot of intensive updates and report-
generating going on, which slows things down to a crawl. But, if you're
a masochist, we'll be glad to serve you :-).]

Which all has nothing to do with the point of the original posting. But may
respond to a few of the red herrings.

>While there are many sites carrying the unix-pc groups who have
>little interest in them (one might successfully argue that att is
>among these sites) it only seems reasonable that the majority of
>the sites paying to move the group around are UNIX PCs.

Substitute 'comp.sys.amiga' for 'unix-pc groups'  and 'Amigas' for 'UNIX PCs'
and see if this still makes sense to you. Perhaps so. This *does* have to do
with the point of the original posting.

>And again, your talk of how difficult it is to obtain a feed is
>utter hogwash.  Feeds for these groups are easy to find if you
>just open your eyes.

You are probably right. :-)

-30-
 
                                 Bud Hovell

USENET: ...!{sun!nosun|tektronix!percival}!whizz!{bbh|postmaster|sysadmin}
USPO:   McCormick & Hovell, Inc., PO Box 1812, Lake Oswego, OR  USA 97035
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