Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!titan!lofaso From: lofaso@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Bernie Lofaso) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.tech Subject: Re: Minix, Unix on the Amiga, and flames on AmigaDOS braindamage... Summary: Unix vs. AmigaDos clarification Message-ID: <517@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> Date: 4 Aug 89 13:33:23 GMT References: <1610@uw-entropy.ms.washington.edu> <195@VAX1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> Organization: Applied Research Labs, University of Texas; Austin, IX Lines: 55 Yes, I'll agree with some of what you have to say. First, let me remotivate my previous post. Its primary purpose was to point out that many people advocate using Unix or Unix-like systems on the Amiga without any mention of potential pitfalls. For some users these systems will be very desirable, but others may find out the hard way that there are some serious drawbacks. I myself am eager to see what the C= supported Unix looks like. But without looking at the disadvantages first, it might be easy to make some ugly mistakes. I think there are some strong arguments that the Amiga operating system (I shall refer to as AmigaDos though I suppose technically that is just the filing system portion), with some PD (or perhaps non-PD) utilities is as good or better environment to work in as compared to a unix OS run on the amiga. Your comments regarding exec peculiarities, BCPL stuff ,etc. are noted and I would tend to agree with nearly all of them. But that is not the level that most users would deal with the system. For you it is a strong argument but even amongst people who use the Amiga primarily for programming (like myself) this is probably only a minor drawback. With regard to Unix maintenance, a typical Unix system (whether one user or multi-user) has files that periodically need clearing (or they grow until your disk is full), and much system information is needed for set-up. Printer set-up is a good example. Ever deal with printcap entries? Yuch-pui! Being able to drop in a new driver in some directory as on the Amiga is much easier and usually gives better results. Having a single set of printer controls commands (from programmers prospective) is one of the features I was considering when I said AmigaDos has a more elegant design than Unix systems. Yes you can find Unix features that show a more elegant approach to certain system aspects, but vice versa is more often true. I offer as an example a comparison between SunOS and AmigaDos. The latest SunOS has virtually all the best features from BSD and SYSV plus some addition that Sun created. Some of these new state-of-the-art features are things that existed in the Amiga from the start. Some aren't as good as the Amigas. Dynamically loadable (and sharable) libraries - new feature - recognize the Amiga counterpart? Named sockets - not too new, but nice. Often times pipes just don't cut it (this is what I meant by IPC being worse on some Unix systems than on the Amiga. Some Unix's only support pipes). Named message ports on the Amiga are an approximate equivalent to this. Something like ARexx could not exist without this OS supported feature. These are a few examples of how the Amiga software designers developed an elegant OS based on some of the better existing OS features at the time. True, there are some awkward "features" in the OS, but the overall design is (my opinion of course) very elegant. Getting back to PD utilities, I have had good luck with some pretty nice PD stuff on both machines. Yes Unix has a lot more, and fortunately people are spending time to port much of it to the Amiga. Try to find a Unix telecommunications programs and I'm afraid you'll be quite frustrated. My Amiga environment is very much Unixized due to PD utilities and some other unix-like utilities from my C compiler. But when all arguments are considered, I have created a better programming environment on my Amiga than I have on my Unix system at work and sacrificed nothing as far as deviating from Amiga "norms". You may disagree with some of my arguments, but you can't ignore them as they are pertinent to many of the Amiga users and their needs. Disclaimer: My opinions are my own, except for those I have stolen from others.