Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!purdue!gatech!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!geneva.rutgers.edu!christian From: zach@drutx.att.com (Zach Lewis) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: A Scary thought, but I bet I get flamed anyway...! Message-ID: Date: 31 Jul 89 01:39:44 GMT Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO Lines: 127 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , perryc@forceps.sun.com (Perry Cross) writes: > > I'm not sure what "New Agers" advocate, but the idea that we > must throw off the yoke of Christianity has its merits. Much > good has been accomplished by the use of the bible to guide > one's life. Christ was a good man, and I would hazard a guess > that most of his followers were good. But many of the basic tenets > are rather cynical. The Bible does not call Jesus just a good man trying to show us how to live but God trying to show us what He is really like and what He would do if we would let Him. The question that comes to my mind is if God created me what does that mean when it comes to the way I should Live ? Does God know what will make me Happy and Healthy? Can I choose to not follow God's way and still be happy and healthy ? When Ford built a car did he know what would keep it running at it's best ? How does that relate to God ? > > Original sin is a destructive concept. We are born with a clean > slate, and its up to us to keep it clean. That the bible teaches > us different is an indication that its authors may have had > ulterior motives. Further, at some point man has to come to > grips with live on this planet. Dreaming of a wonderful life > after death detracts from the issues that face us today. > Sin is always misunderstood because the focus is almost always on what someone did rather than a relationship. When I use the word sin I use it in it's original context of seperation from face to face communion with God. When a person is seperated from God he does bad things that is plain an simple for me. Adam and Eve in the garden chose to seperate from God and to do something that God had said would have bad consequences. Adam and Eve chose to say that God didn't know what he was talking about. They did it their way and we follow in their footsteps doing it ourway. If I put water in the gas tank of my car will it run ? Why ? Did Ford design my car to run on water ? Now if God is creator Does he know what is best for me ? I say yes but the question of Original Sin is that at birth I didn't know God and I had to learn to trust Him and put my faith in Him . I was not born with a total trust in God. That is Original Sin . You see Adam and Eve broke that trust and since then we have had to learn to trust God and to choose to trust him at all times. at it's. > Another problem is the apparent binary nature of the creed. The > doctrine would be better served if belief in God were optional. > After all, there may be other explanations for man's existence > and people shouldn't be excluded on this point. > I am confused here because you can choose to not believe in God. Belief in God does require a choice. What are you trying to say ? Are there not many people who have don't believe in God ? Please explain this on further. > It might be a good think piece to try and come up with ways > that the bible is anti-human and find alternatives. The bible > would probably better serve man if it were a living document. > Of course some may think I'm suggesting change for its own > sake; that I'm bored with the same old scripture. That would > be missing the point. > There is an living Bible and that is JESUS. I would suggest that you study the life of Christ in the Bible and I would say read the book of John because John was trying to show the world what God is like. John pick out seven miracles that show what God is trust worthy. John uses seven I AM statements to say specific things about God. You are right when say that people lift up the Bible but leave out the human. God addressed this problem as JESUS. Jesus didn't go around with the so-called Bible scholars of his day he went to the people meeting their needs both spiritual and physical. God message is a complete message of love that meets all our needs but we must trust Him and not some man. Study the life of Jesus in the book of John with the idea of learning how God treated people, what God did for the people, How God treated those who claimed to know him but didn't. > A more up-to-date version of creation, less reliance on the rath > of God, miracles, etc. might bring more people into re-evaluating > and hopefully improving their secular existence. Also, a > socratic approach might be more helpful in internalizing the > basic concepts. Too much of the bible is anecdotal. > Changing the Gospel will not make man better, Know God and trusting Him will. Sounds simple but I go back to the car story the only way I can make sure my car runs well is to follow the instructions of the builder of that car. > Society is becoming more sophisticated, and hence are religion > needs to keep pace. Fundementalists are an example of those > who place too much emphasis on the book, its facts, and historical > context, and often fail to grasp the message. Taking the bible > verbatim is a disservice to Christ's efforts. It was a good > starting point, but it may be running out of steam. > You are right that some time the forest is missed for all the trees but that is not the Bible fault but the people who claimed to understand the Bible. Remember in Jesus day many people claim to know the Bible but that didn't know the author of the Bible when they saw Him. > I know these ideas may be a bit radical, and I'm by no means > a theologian, but it would be nice if there was a more modern, > cohesive document that incorporated an eclectic philosophy in > a more challenging format. > > > Perry The Bible is not a book to build a utopian society on earth but a book to allow people to know God and his will for them which will make the world a better place. The Bible is not for me to beat you over the head but for me to clean myself up an there by change the world by my living what I know is right through faith in God. Zac