Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!purdue!gatech!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!geneva.rutgers.edu!christian From: fibercom!lab@uunet.uu.net (Lance Beckner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: God's Will (Desire) Message-ID: Date: 31 Jul 89 01:57:43 GMT Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu Organization: FiberCom, Inc., Roanoke, Virginia Lines: 91 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , bnr-fos!bnr-public!davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) writes: > > In article fibercom!lab@uunet.uu.net (Lance Beckner) writes: > >Then why do we need to pray for His will to be done on earth as it is in > >heaven? :-) > We are always to pray that His will be done, but this does not > necessarily mean that His will is that there be no sin in the earth. > Romans 1:24 tells us "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness > through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies > between themselves:". Romans 1:26 begins "For this cause God gave them > up unto vile affections:". Romans 1:28 further states "And even as they > did not like to retain God in {their} knowledge, God gave them over to > a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;". God's > will for this earth is to bring it into judgment after having removed > all those whom He planned to save from it so that they would not be > harmed. Since this is His will, it is for this to be done that we must > pray. Paul is referring to non-believers here. My question was "is it God's DESIRE that I, a child of God sin. Yes I know that He has willed that we keep our sinful bodies. But I also believe that He DESIRES that we do the best that we can (with His help) to avoid sin as much as possible. Let's take an example: A Christian man falls in love with and decides to marry a real nice girl that he works with. The only problem is that she is not a believer. This is in direct violation of God's word (and therefore, His will), because 2 Corinthians 6:14 tells us "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers." In this example, the Christian man sinned. It was not God's DESIRE that this take place. However, He did ALLOW it to take place. My view is that what God DESIRES to happen does not always happen. He does work all things that happen (whether He desires them or allows them) together for His ultimate purpose. > It was God's will to sacrifice His only begotten Son at the hand of > man, and to accomplish this He had to be rejected by man. Speaking of > the new heaven and the new earth, Revelation 21:23 tells us "And the > city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for > the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb {is} the light thereof.". > Study this wording very carefully and you will see that the Lamb is the > glory of God. God is telling us that the Lamb is the means through > which He will display His glory to those with whom He will share > eternity. I am sure that there will be no disagreement when I say, > without going into a long proof, that the Lamb is a symbol of Christ as > the perfect sacrifice for sin. If His perfect sacrifice for sin, i.e. > His taking upoin Himself the equivalent of eternal damnation for those > whom He has saved, is the means by which He has chosen to display His > glory throughout eternity then we must assume that that was His plan > all along. He could not have accomplished this without having allowed > sin to enter into HIs creation and without allowing people to so > absolutely reject Him. I have a couple of problems with this. First, I don't think you have answered my question (or maybe you didn't understand it). I'm referring mostly to the O.T. and asking if God DESIRED Israel to reject Him and offer their praises, and sacrifices to false gods? I read some the O.T. and see that God is very displeased with their rejection of the true LORD God. Hosea comes to mind in particular. Obviously He foreknew of their rejection and even used it, along with their final rejection, to accomplish His plan of salvation. But I do not believed that God ever has, or ever will, DESIRE rejection from any of His creation. In fact, it is the rejection of God (Father and Son) the we are condemned for (John 3:18,19). It makes no sense to me that God would desire our rejection, and then condemn us for the same rejection. Second, as it reads, it appears that God is limited in some way. You imply that if Israel didn't reject Him, God would not have been able to save us. I think God would have come up with another plan if the rejection didn't happen. Of course, it did happen, and all we can do is speculate about how things might have worked under different circumstances. Again, I see God's foreknowledge of Israel's rejection, and His using that in His plan for salvation. Finally, you say that it was God's will (desire) that sin enter His creation. I don't agree with you. I think He knew that sin would enter His creation, and He had the whole salvation plan all worked out before Adam took his first breath. But in Genesis chapter three, I see a God who is very displeased about Adam and Eve's disobedience. I don't believe that it was God's desire for sin to enter His creation. But then, if God knew that man would sin, and He created man anyway, then you could say He did more than just allowed it. Maybe He...., nah. -- Lance A. Beckner "Jesus loves me, this I know, INTERNET: lab@fibercom.com for the Bible tells me so." UUCP: ...!uunet!fibercom!lab