Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!purdue!gatech!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!geneva.rutgers.edu!christian From: fibercom!lab@uunet.uu.net (Lance Beckner) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: He loves me, He loves me not, He loves me, He... Message-ID: Date: 31 Jul 89 02:14:11 GMT Sender: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu Organization: FiberCom, Inc., Roanoke, Virginia Lines: 54 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article , bnr-fos!bnr-public!davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) writes: > > Although God hates a person who sins, (what exactly do you do with > Scriptures like Psalm 5:5 and Psalm 11:5 which are part of God's Word > and cannot be ignored to avoid this truth), His perfect righteousness > will not permit Him to even see sins that have been paid for. If Christ > paid for the sins of a given person then God no longer sees the sins of > that person and, therefore, can no longer hate him. No, I don't ignore these scriptures. But I am trying to look at them in light of all other scripture. Right now, I don't have an answer. But I don't accept your answer either. Here is my problem: God hates sinners + We are all sinners = God hates us all. And yet the scriptures clearly teach that God loves us (His children). So if God loved me enough that while I was still a sinner, Christ died for me, that means that while God hated me (in my sins), He loved me. Maybe this is (at least in part) the answer. Could it be possible that God hates us (because of our sins) and yet loves us at the same time? speaking of Romans 8:38-39, Dave says that these scriptures imply that all of those whom God loves will be saved. I write: > >In case you didn't know, Paul is writing to Christians here. Dave writes: > This is not a proof that God does not hate non-Christians. But it does not prove that He hates non-Christians either. It tells the believers in Rome (and everywhere else) that nothing will separate them from the love of God. > He loves > those whom He has planned to save but not actually saved yet because > their sins have already been paid for even if the actual bestowing of > His gift of salvation is not complete yet. Do you have scriptural support for this? Or is this just your way of reconciling these passages? (this is NOT a flame, I just want to know). I see us as being enemies of God right up to the point where we accept Christ as Savior (Rom 5:10). I am going to have to do a lot of study on the love-hate aspect of God's character. I have a couple of theories that I'm going to try to chase down. But those could be wrong. -- Lance A. Beckner "Jesus loves me, this I know, INTERNET: lab@fibercom.com for the Bible tells me so." UUCP: ...!uunet!fibercom!lab