Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!iuvax!purdue!gatech!prism!rh26
From: rh26@prism.gatech.EDU (Howard,Robert L)
Newsgroups: comp.text
Subject: Re: WYSIWYG = DIY (=hubris)
Message-ID: <1438@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Date: 10 Aug 89 17:39:08 GMT
References: <210927@<1989Jul28> <8800031@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <14903@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> <387@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl>
Reply-To: rh26@prism.gatech.EDU (Howard,Robert L)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 66

In article <387@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl> eykhout@wn2.UUCP (Victor Eijkhout) writes:
>In article <14903@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> hugo@griggs (Peter Su) writes:
>>I claim that WYSIWIG are overly concerned with form, and no concerned
>>enough about with the logical operations that result in the form 
>>that you want.

>This is an essential point. The discussion so far has been mostly
>on capabilities. Well let's grand that a virtuoso can do the same
>things with a WYSIWIG system and with a mark-up language (TeX, troff).

That seems fair.

>Now how about if I am not the designer of the layout. 

>How about this one: I come to this designer with a manual of which
>I have already typed the first 40 pages, say that's 100 sections and
>subsections, and she tells me 'Oh please do all your headings
>in capitals'.

[ Example 2 deleted ]

>In both cases my texts were in TeX (with some provisory macros
>so that I could at least print), and implementing those changes
>took 5 minutes each.

>Question: can someone tell me that with a wysiwig it is just
>as easy to make a global design change?

Yes, it is....if the person is smart enough to use styles (or style
sheets) in his document.

Using your first example this person would set up a style for all headings
and call it HEAD.  He makes HEAD do bold italics (well, why not :-).  Then 
every heading he types is formatted using the HEAD code.  It shows up on 
his screen in bold italics.  Now the designer really freaks and says to use 
caps.  All you need to do is go to wherever the HEAD style is defined, delete 
the bold and italic codes, and add the 'use all caps' code.  (Now I will 
admit you're in trouble if there is no such code but the point is that it is 
simple to do.)  What is the result?  In just a few seconds (depending on the 
speed of the computer) you have all the headings in caps AND you can SEE the 
change.

Sounds pretty good to me.

>Conjecture: wysiwig systems are for people who make their own
>layout, and who have decided on the definitive layout
>before they started keying in the text. This I think is a wrong
>way of working. I think I have a right to say this, because I've
>produced some 'master pieces of the printing art', and the design
>was done by a pro, and only after I had finished the text.

I think your conjecture is probably correct (for the most part) but 
my point is that you don't have to work that way if you are smart.
Why not enjoy seeing a reasonable facsimile of your document right
on the screen?

Just a few thoughts.
(They've worked for me. :-)

Robert

-- 
Robert L. Howard  (GTRI/STL/MSD)             (404) 421-7165
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
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