Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!pilchuck!amc-gw!thebes!mtk!marmar From: marmar@mtk.UUCP (Mark Martino) Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: Cost of Forth Chips Summary: Okay, I knew that... Keywords: stack, risc, chips, sc32 Message-ID: <896@mtk.UUCP> Date: 21 Aug 89 14:59:53 GMT References: <893@mtk.UUCP> <13199@well.UUCP> Reply-To: marmar@mtk.UUCP (Mark Martino) Distribution: usa Organization: Mannesmann Tally, Kent, WA 98032 Lines: 53 In article <13199@well.UUCP> jax@well.UUCP (Jack J. Woehr) writes: >In article <893@mtk.UUCP> marmar@mtk.UUCP (Mark Martino) writes: > >( in re: sc32, rtx, and cost of same) >... >>I realize everyone likes to make up their >>R & D costs, but both of these chips had a lot of their design work done >>before their current developers implemented them. > > There are costs, costs, and more costs involved in introducing >a chip. It ain't mass production that makes them cheaper, it's mass BUYING >of them that makes 'em cheaper. There is tons of documentation to write, >testing, bug fixing, etc etc etc marketing, etc ... it's endless. Did >you know that there are only about 100 SC32's in existence? > Okay, okay. I've been an engineer long enought to know that. What I didn't know was how few chips have been sold. Which brings me to my next point. I've seen quite a few articles in magazines and here on the net that demonstrate a lot of interest in Forth from outside the engineering community (and I use the word loosely). Forth is easy for non-technical people to understand. It's only drawback, until the Forth chips came out, was that it was slower than C. So, although I am glad to see that Harris is making a big push to Forth in machine control, I think there would be a bigger market if they'd build a board to go into a computer that could be sold to non-technical people. It would be much more of a "computer for the rest of us" than the Mac because it would be easier to understand from the ground up. As much as I like the Mac interface, there's an awful lot of software to support it. Most of this software is dedicated to maintaining the integrity of the "metaphors" the Mac is based on. Forth is simple to understand. The only metaphor you need is the stack which is easy to understand even without a metaphor. An artist, musician, theatre technician, bookkeeper, shopkeeper, or anyone else without formal training in computers can learn it enough to do what they want or need to do. I realize that Harris and Silicon Composers do not have distribution for these sorts of markets, but maybe should get them or get a company that has them or can develop them. This would sell chips galore. Most non-technical people like to stick with what they find comfortable. Once Harris or SC made some inroads into these markets, they'd have customers for life. I know a little bit about all this because I've been an electronic/software engineer for five years (and yes I do have a BSEE). Until I was thirty years old, I was a graphic artist with no background in science or engineering to speak of. I know what it's like to have techno-babble hurled at you in answer to what you thought was a simple request. I got so fed up with it, that I studied the stuff myself. Not everyone is going to react the way I did, but the point is this: Computers should help ordinary people do their jobs better and faster. Forth is the shortest path to this end. There's money to be made in matching people with Forth-based computers.