Path: utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!sce!cognos!rossj
From: rossj@cognos.UUCP (Ross Judson)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Which language to teach first?
Message-ID: <6907@cognos.UUCP>
Date: 22 Aug 89 18:39:50 GMT
References: <2450@cbnewsc.ATT.COM> <6278@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Reply-To: rossj@cognos.UUCP (Ross Judson)
Organization: Cognos Inc., Ottawa, Canada
Lines: 41

I said:
     o	Ease of use and programming (advanced user interface).  
   
Bill Wolfe said:
       Great for a Hypercard system designed to be used by non-experts;
       but we are training professionals here, not unsophisticated users.

Nevin Liber said:
   I really disagree with you here.  You seem to be saying that
   "sophisticated professionals" ought to be using more primitive tools.

Bill Wolfe said:
     No, I'm saying that we should be training for what actually will
     confront people out in the real world.  If that's nothing more
     than an operating system and a compiler, then that's what they
     have to get used to.  If it's an advanced CASE system, then that
     should be made available for training purposes as soon as it's
     economically feasible to do so.  But I am 100% against the idea
     of spoon-feeding students and giving them unrealistic expectations.
 
I say:

Bill, this is precisely the kind of reasoning that would turn our
universities into C shops.  Let's be realistic here.  When students graduate
and hit the real world, they're going to be working in C, C++, FORTRAN, or
COBOL.  That covers 99.9% of cases.  Why then do we not teach nothing but
the above in university?

Clearly you know the answer.  There's more to life than bread and water.

Incidentally, a truly advanced programming system will encompass both power
_and_ ease of use.  I do not believe they are mutually exclusive; they are
merely difficult to achieve, and difficult to define.

I say that we spoon feed.  Give them a taste of the future.  If the rest of
the world is too archaic or immutable to develop the tools of the future,
perhaps that will persuade them to perform the work themselves.

-- 
uucp       - uunet!mitel!sce!cognos!rossj  | stop this rhyming! i mean it!
arpa/inter - rossj%cognos.uucp@uunet.uu.net| anybody want a peanut?