Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!henry.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!cit-vax!scheer From: scheer@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu (Wonko the Sane) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Software thieves (was Re: Software theives) Message-ID: <11708@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> Date: 24 Aug 89 16:55:36 GMT References: <30706@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <6846@rpi.edu> <2361@raspail.cdcnet.cdc.com> <6865@rpi.edu> <58013@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> <6876@rpi.edu> <1160@sas.UUCP> <11682@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> <1575@convex.UUCP> Reply-To: scheer@cit-vax.UUCP (Wonko the Sane) Distribution: usa Organization: California Institute of Technology Lines: 68 In article <1575@convex.UUCP> swarren@eugene.UUCP (Steve Warren) writes: >What is the essence of a pirate? He loots. Looters are "users" in the >perjerative sense. Without the "producers" in society "pirates" are lost. >What does a looter do when there is no one left to loot? He simply lives >without. Why? Because he is incapable of producing these items himself, >and unwilling to pay someone else to produce it for him. > My first disagreement, you say a pirate is incapable of producing such items themselves. I completely disagree. There are many very good hackers that are pirates. I have respect for the abilities of those that dive into a disks raw information to find out how it is encoded so it cannot be copied, and alter it to it can. Pirates are NOT incapable of producing software. >There _is_ an ultimate right or wrong on this question, because we know >what the result would be if all consumers were pirates. Nothing would >ever be produced. Why should I produce something if I know it will be >instantly stolen from me? Don't rationalize that _someone_ would pay for >it; I am taking pirating to its logical conclusion, at which point everyone >in the society realises that they don't need to buy software because they >can get it free and no one will harm them for it. Again, I disagree. You are being silly. If nobody is producing software, and there is a desire for a new application, it WILL be written. If there is a demand, there WILL be a supply. Also, if there is a demand, then those that supply can make a profit from it. If a pirate wants a piece of software that does not exist, the pirate can either write it, or pay someone to write it. If a pirate pays someone for a program, then they are not a pirate. There will ALWAYS be software production because computers are so incredibly useful, and new applications are always being invented. You CANNOT take this argument to that logical conclusion. > >You may naively presume that the majority of producers will bravely continue >production in the face of a society that steals their labor, but reality is >not so forgiving. For examples of societies where this presumption reigns >you need only look to Soviet Russia and Red China. The halting reforms >being attempted even now in these countries attest to the lack of insight >into human nature their systems have exhibited. The refusal to repay a >laborer for his efforts is immoral, and the result of this refusal in the >long run is a loss for the society of the ability to produce. These societies were not created to steal labor. They were made to eliminate a major flaw that capitalism has. This flaw is inertia. Although every attempt is made to allow the poor the ability to improve themselves, it is still easier for someone coming from a rich background to be rich. Money does work as an incentive to production, but it causes a society with classes, which is not so good. Communism theoretically is everyone working for the benefit of everyone. If people weren't so f*cking selfish, this would be ideal. The fact of the matter is that people care more for themselves than the people or environment around them. People are also greedy. If they see someone better off than they, they become jelous. But this is a digression again. > >Just say NO to piracy. It is fundamentally immoral, and arguments to the >contrary are the self-serving rationalizations of looters. > Yes, piracy is immoral if our system worked the way it was intended to, but pirates see a greater evil in the abuses some people make to the system, and subvert it only to disrupt it. As long as THIS system exists, there will be pirates. We need change. We need a better system. -- Wonko the Sane Disclaimer: I am totally irresponsible. So shoot me then!