Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: crowe@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Daniel Crowe) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: secondary causation Message-ID: Date: 24 Aug 89 06:31:18 GMT Organization: City College Of New York Lines: 58 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article stg@ihlpl.att.com (Scott T Grant) writes: > Sorry, I just can't buy into this bit about God. I also don't believe > he can be the kind and loving God you portray. Given that God is omnipotent > and knows everything that has/is/will happen in the universe we can then > take it one step further. God knows, from the time of a persons birth, even > before, where that soul is bound. Yet he lets them be born, live and die only > to go to hell and thus give him greater glory.....don't sound like the kind > of God I would be abasing myself to in servitude. Personally, I believe that God knows all the possibilities for the future, but that He doesn't know which of the many possibilities will actually occur until it does. Given that man is a free moral agent, that God did not create him to sin but that sin is the result of free will choice, at any point where man might sin, at least two possible futures exist. Given that many such points exist, the number of possible futures grows rapidly with time. Of course, the number of such points is finite for any human (before the resurrection), and the range of possible types of futures is bounded by restraints of God. To get back to my original statement, God knows all the possible futures and is prepared to respond to whichever one actually occurs (thereby affecting its course) but He does not know beforehand which choice will be made in any free will decision (by definition). He could have created the universe such that only one predetermined future could evolve, but he chose not to do so, so that men might serve Him out of love rather than because they could not do otherwise. For example, I believe that God did not know that Satan would rebel and drag down Adam and Eve and the whole human race, but He knew that it was a possibility, and prepared the plan of salvation just in case he did. In fact, the Bible states that the plan of salvation was prepared before the creation of the world. I do not believe that God knows who will be saved or lost until they die or the Second Advent, as appropriate; therefore, Scott's objection does not apply. I realize that I hold a minority opinion regarding God's omniscience and foreknowledge, but I have come to that conclusion after long and prayerful consideration of the issue. I would be willing to discuss the issue in more detail if anyone is interested, either in this group or through email. Scott's comment that the judgment of the wicked brings glory to God is true and deserves comment, but I will refrain from doing so in this article since it is already to long. Perhaps some other time if anyone is interested. Shalom. -- Daniel (God is my judge) * "Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to physics graduate student * speak and slow to become angry, for man's City College of New York * anger does not bring about the righteous crowe@sci.ccny.cuny.edu * life that God desires." (James 1:19-20)