Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: levy@ttbcad.att.com (Daniel R Levy) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Abbie Hoffman Message-ID: Date: 24 Aug 89 07:01:24 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Skokie IL Lines: 36 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu > Sure enough Abbie's sins caught up with him when he overdosed on drugs. > He learned the hard way that "the wages of sin is death." > On his way out, did he think to get right with God, probably not-- > who can think straight on dope? > So, odds are, Abbie's in Hell today though God doesn't want anyone to > go there. Which brings to mind something that bothers me very much. What about people who can't "think straight" due to no choice of their own? E.g., people born with severe organic brain damage. Yes, they too get the Lake of Fire, because they can not think to believe in God. As do babies that die before they can understand. Ah, predestination. Yes I'll follow you Lord, because I can. But I beg Thee, curb some of Thy eternal wrath against those who through no conscious choice of their own, can't. [I am unsure whether you are commenting just on that particular document, or whether you fear that this view is widespread. I think it's uncommon for people to believe that babies who die before they can understand automatically end up in hell. Certainly that idea would not be predestination. I certainly don't know what every Christian believes, but I think we can take the Westminster Confession of Faith as typical of those who believe in predestination. It says "Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated and saved by Christ through the Spirit, who worketh when, and whee, and how he pleaseth. So also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word." (The former UPCUSA, which was the largest branch of the Presbyterian church in the North, added a "declaratory statement" to the Confession, saying that they believed that all who died in infancy were elect. I doubt however that this modification would be accepted by all those who believe in predestination.) Salvation is normally considered to be more a matter of the will than the intellect. I know of no reason to suppose that God's grace is incapable of dealing with people who have diminished intellectual capacity due to age or physical problems. --clh]