Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!sun-barr!texsun!texbell!vector!telecom-gateway From: ben@sybase.com (ben ullrich) Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom Subject: Re: Caller ID Privacy Question Message-ID: Date: 5 Sep 89 07:22:37 GMT Sender: news@vector.Dallas.TX.US Organization: sybase, inc., emeryville, ca. Lines: 95 Approved: telecom-request@vector.dallas.tx.us X-Submissions-To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu X-Administrivia-To: telecom-request@vector.dallas.tx.us X-TELECOM-Digest: volume 9, issue 356, message 5 of 6 In article , Buster Irby writes: > Remember, the purpose of the device we are discussing is to identify > the calling party, not to enable you to return the call! This has not been established; I wouldn't put this in such rhetorical terms! I personally don't mind the idea of a code, but if the telephone number of the initiator of a harassing caller ever flashed on my box, you can bet I'd call them back pronto and return the favor. I think having the full phone number of the caller, even though it is unlisted, would be preferable to just a code, but either way, there are ways around whatever comes to pass, and your reasons for wanting a code are not really effective, nor completely fair -- read on. > One of the features of the calling party id device is the ability for *you* > to screen your incoming calls and stop people from harassing you. This can > be done by simply blocking their code/phone number. This can also be done by giving *them* a few calls back. How many folks do you think would harass you if you harassed them right back? Not that I would play telephone tag with some jerk I don't know, but it seems reasonable that being able to call people back after they harass you on the phone is a fairly effective method for dealing with the situation. There have been testimonials from people in this forum who have this service and have already used it to put a quick stop to harassing calls simply by calling harassers back. And what if you run out of storage in your blocked number list? All the descriptions of the number blocking service have included limits to the list of numbers that can be blocked. If you are ever so fortunate to be on just one telemarketing list, or to have a credit card, you can be sure that your blocked list will grow right quick. ``So call the telemarketers back and ask them to stop calling you,'' you might say. RIGHT. Ever try to tell a computer you don't have dialup access to to forget about your record in their database? I wouldn't believe any telephone marketing organization would remove my record from their files when I asked unless I could be allowed to remove it myself. > Must I give up my right to have an unlisted phone number just because > someone wants to be able to return a harassing phone call? Read ``must I give up my rights so someone else can have theirs?'' Well, as someone else was mentioning last week, yes and no. Rights are only just if they don't infringe upon those of others. It seems we have that case here, and it's a hard problem to solve. I tend to think that if those with unlisted numbers truly want to have privacy, they should not call anyone. After all, if they don't want anyone to bother them, why should they be able to bother others? Right now, if someone calls you and wakes you up at 4 am, you have no recourse, and cannot return the favor. With CID/non-pub, you remain anonymous inasmuch as you cannot be called back if you should harass anyone else. Why should you have that privilege while the vast majority of callers are held directly and immediately accountable for their calls since their numbers are listed? I think that the rights of those with unlisted numbers are being carried out such that they will be conceptually immune from any identification system, and everyone *else*'s rights to immediately know who is *invading THEIR privacy* are sacrificed. Unless every participant in the telephone network is treated the same, the CID system cannot be truly fair to all, listed and unlisted ALIKE, as it should be. If someone with an unlisted number wanted to remain anonymous (or at least not directly reachable) in the midst of CID, with codes or no codes, one could certainly do so with other methods. One could establish a line for making calls, one that is listed, but is perhaps never answered, or put your modem on this line. Modem carriers are never very exciting. Another separate line could be unlisted, and used only for receiving calls from those to whom I give the number, or for making calls to the same. I realize that adding an extra line may seem a bit excessive of a step to achieve the privacy that CID seems to be reworking, but if you really value your privacy, you sometimes need to take steps to insure it. Being the exception to the rule often involves a price, which is not unreasonable, in my mind, at all. Inconvenience in the interest of fairness for ALL is sometimes the price you have to pay for your own liberty. > Returning an obscene or harassing phone call can only escalate the problem > further. Not according to the testimonials here. As I mentioned above, those who have this service have demonstrated that they can put a quick stop to the harassment by calling the person back and giving them some harassment they can understand. If you have evidence that calling the person back only escalates the problem further, let's see it! > After all, does anyone really believe that they have the right to know my > salary, how old I am, what religion I practice, what color I am, or what my > phone number is just because I called them on the phone. I think not. This is just sensationalism, scare tactics to make this seem like some big brother is going to divulge everything about everyone unless those with unlisted numbers are allowed to have their exception infringing on others rights. Let's stick to the issues, huh? ...ben ---- ben ullrich consider my words disclaimed,if you consider them at all sybase, inc., emeryville, ca "When you deal with human beings, a certain +1 (415) 596 - 3500 amount of nonsense is inevitable." -- mike trout ben@sybase.com {pyramid,pacbell,sun,lll-tis}!sybase!ben