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From: billkatt@caen.engin.umich.edu (billkatt)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.appletalk
Subject: Re: UDPTalk as a backbone
Message-ID: <1989Sep6.165747.23972@caen.engin.umich.edu>
Date: 6 Sep 89 16:57:00 GMT
References: <1989Sep5.192546.15473@caen.engin.umich.edu> <31397@ames.arc.nasa.gov>
Reply-To: billkatt@caen.engin.umich.edu (billkatt)
Organization: Computer Aided Engineering Network (CAEN), University of Michigan
Lines: 55

In article <31397@ames.arc.nasa.gov> medin@cincsac.arc.nasa.gov (Milo S. Medin) writes:
>
>In article <1989Sep5.192546.15473@caen.engin.umich.edu>, billkatt@caen.engin.umich.edu (billkatt) writes:
>> 
>> Apple's Internet Router is a fantastic way to join LocalTalks to a backbone.
>> You can join two LocalTalks and a combination of 6 EtherTalks and TokenTalks
>> with one machine which can also function as an AppleShare server.  So
>> LocalTalks and FastPaths don't go hand-in-hand anymore.  40 FastPaths and
>> no end in sight?  I can see and end.  You will have to split your network into
>> multiple networks or stop expanding when you reach 64 networks.
>> I am kind of worried about having to run around to re-configure our FastPaths
>> but we simply have no choice.  We can't use atalkad anymore.  We have a 
>> FULL table.
>
>I'm sorry, Apple's Internet router is rubbish.  How do you do net
>management and control?  SNMP? CMIP?  Nothing is not an acceptable 
>answer!  It doesn't perform IP gateway functions, so our NCSA Telnet
>users can't talk to the rest of the systems on base though it.  We have
>major mail applications on base (MacPOP) that our management people
>use to read mail that requires CAP interoperation.  How does the Apple
>IR do that?  I'm sure it does a fine job of doing LocalTalk to Ethertalk.
>That however, is a solution to a problem I don't have.  And again, you
>have to figure net management into the equation. Things occaisionally
>do go wrong... :-)

SNMP, CMIP?  Those don't apply to the Internet Router, it doesn't do IP.
(I know that isn't what you want to hear)  Just for the record, you don't
have to have as many FastPaths as LocalTalks.  You can direct NCSA Telnet
to use a FastPath in a different zone as a gateway to IP, and as long as you
have one FastPath in each zone, you don't even have to do that.  It will be
used automatically from all networks in that zone.
>
>Run out at 64 nets?  That's just a constant in the KIP code.  Source 
>is great.  Maybe KStar can't deal with it, but we don't run KStar...
>
>If you are looking for the mod, change NANETS to 96 or 128 or
>whatever.  Make sure the KIP code you use also can deal with it.  
>As I said, source code is great.  It's in the UNIX tradition 
>of course, not the Mac tradition...

I've tried it, have you?  Look a little closer.  The packets which
FastPaths use to supply original routes aren't RTMP packets.  It happens
that with 64 routes, the packet used to supply routes to FastPaths is full.
You will have to send additional packets to the routers, except reception
of a packet causes the FastPath to clear out its current routes and replace
them.  Information the the source code would imply that there is a slightly
different kind of packet you can send to supply additional routes, but
atalkad never sends it and doesn't mention the format.  So although 64 is a
constant in the code, it isn't an ARBITRARY constant, and making it larger
gains you nothing.

Looking through the KIP source code seems to imply that KIP supports it, but
I don't think its been tested too well.

-Steve