Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!apple!oliveb!tymix!antares!tardis!jms From: jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Re: Amiga vs. Atari ST Summary: here it is Message-ID: <248@tardis.Tymnet.COM> Date: 10 Jun 89 02:28:00 GMT Expires: 31 Dec 89 08:00:00 GMT References: <8906062002.AA09843@EDN-VAX.DCA.MIL> <244@tardis.Tymnet.COM> Reply-To: jms@tardis.Tymnet.COM (Joe Smith) Organization: McDonnell Douglas Field Service Co, San Jose CA Lines: 228 Two people have asked that I post the message in comp.sys.amiga that compares the two machines. Here is an extract of that article. If anyone has comments about this, I can forward them to Edwin. >From: ehoogerbeets@rose.waterloo.edu (Edwin Hoogerbeets) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Introduction to comp.sys.amiga Message-ID: <14247@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Date: 3 Jun 89 00:13:08 GMT Expires: 3 Jul 89 20:37:25 GMT Sender: daemon@watdragon.waterloo.edu Reply-To: ehoogerbeets@rose.waterloo.edu (Edwin Hoogerbeets) Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario This is an introductory posting to comp.sys.amiga. If you are a new reader of this group or even if you just want Amiga/Usenet information, please read the following articles. [Many topics deleted.] ,BUY Which machine to buy? (500 or 2000 Amiga, Atari, Mac?) uunet!Sun.COM!cmcmanis (Chuck McManis) geoffs@smoke.UUCP AmigaIan@cup.portal.com.UUCP >From: uunet!Sun.COM!cmcmanis (Chuck McManis) Subject: a comparison of PC's... which one to buy This posting is an effort on my part to demonstrate why these arguments are pointless. I try to show that the Amiga 500 and the 1040 ST are essentially the same design with different compromises. When all is said and done they are the same computer. You as a reader look at the two machines, look at the way the designers compromised, and pick the one that *you* like better. Also be aware that your choice is only the better choice from your perspective, others will disagree and they are also correct from *their* perspective. Take the following comments from Peter as an example : In article <11767@cup.portal.com> (Peter Ted Szymonik) writes: > ...I'd say Atari will have no > problem reaching the million mark next year if it hasn't already > done so! ... Given the "magicalness" of a million machines (see the PS/2, Apple Mac announcements when they broke a million) it is clear that Atari (or Commodore for that matter) will be shouting to everyone that can read (especially developers) to let them in on the good news. Witness Commodore's hyper sensitivity as they get closer to that number. > Also, I'm sure that a good chunk of those Amiga sales > were the 500 which was probably bought primarily as a game machine > while the majority of STs out there are 1040's which have much > greater utility. This is an especially wonderful example of why debating machine merits is a waste of time. Here is a guy who obviously is very proud of his computer ownership attempting to slander the "competition" with absolutely no facts at all. If he understood the Amiga computer line he would realize that the Amiga 500 *is* the Atari 1040 ST competition. Line up the features side by side and even a third grader could tell you they were the same machine, to wit : 1040 ST Amiga 500 ---------- ---------- Processor 68000 68000 "Main" Memory 1 Meg 1 Meg (with A501 clock/ram card) Screen Resolution 320 X 200 350 X 200 various #'s of 640 X 200 700 X 200 colors. 640 X 480 700 X 440 Disk Drive 720K 880K Serial Port Yes Yes Parallel Port Yes Yes MIDI Port Yes No DMA Port Yes No Expansion Bus No Yes Hard Disk Available Yes Yes Memory Expansion Avail Yes Yes Max Memory 4 MB 9 Mb Blitter No* Yes Audio Yes Yes ----- * Blitter optional according to some things I have seen And the astute readers will note that a.) Prices are different, b.) Implementations are different, and c.) Neither machine is the "better" machine to everyone. In terms of hardware capabilities they offer the same functions. The question you ask are "What are the decisions the designers made?" Take MIDI for example. The Amiga does not have a MIDI port, the designers did not decide to include one. It is easy to turn the Amiga serial port into a MIDI port but it will cost you the user extra cash. *You* decide which decision is better for *you*. Same thing with a hard disk. Atari builds in a DMA port that makes connecting a SCSI device easier, Commodore provides and expansion bus that you can connect a hard disk controller to. Here the Atari designer may have said "Well, either we offer a hard disk interface or an expansion interface, which will it be? Gee most of our users will just want a hard disk so lets offer that." Whereas the Amiga designer might have said "Lets offer an expansion port so that other things beside a hard disk can be easily connected here." The Atari decision makes for cheaper hard disks, the Commodore decision makes for greater flexibility. Which do *you* prefer? *You* decide and that makes that machine best for you. When one evaluates both machines you will notice that the Commodore decisions tended to flexibility even when it raised the cost, whereas Atari's leaned toward keeping the price down at the cost of flexibility. None of these decisions make one computer "better" than the other, they just make the computers different. Of course none of this means anything to someone who's ego is tied up in the computer they own. That type of person will get just as hyper about whether or not a BMW is better than a Mercedes or a Ford is better than a Mercury. The important point to remember is that when you read an article from someone who really likes their computer and thinks anyone who doesn't like their computer obviously has a learning disability, you have to understand that they are *correct*. This is how they think from *their* perspective. There is no need to point out how their perspective disagrees strongly with *your* perspective. That is because both of your perspectives will disagree with everyone elses perspective. The end result is a couple of thousand articles describing the authors perspective and views. If you could condense them into a single survey message you might et the Signal to Noise ratio up above .5 but I doubt it. Well thats *my* perspective, -- --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. ---------------- >From: geoffs@smoke.UUCP Subject: Re: Atari vs. Amiga: what to buy? ATARI VS. AMIGA: WHAT TO BUY? * the bottom line is -- whatever you like best. * but here are some thoughts: WORK/SCHOOL OS features: ======================== What kind of environment are you using at work/school? It is Likely Multi-tasking. (VAX VMS, UNIX, ?) - (AMIGA & ST) If VMS, I don't know of any VMS look-alikes for either machine. there is a PD editor (TVX) that can be configured to look like the VMS EDT editor I think... I know it can be made to look like VI and emacs/jove/uemacs... (unix). - (AMIGA) If unix at work,... unix editor PD look-a-likes "vi" and "emacs" are available. (They are also available on the ST). - (ST) If unix at work, then note that an ST version of MINIX has gone to Prentice Hall for distribution (out in Sept? - check comp.os.minix on when). You are familiar with MINIX? It is Version 7 unix look alike muli-tasking OS, comes with compiler and unix-behaving tools. - (AMIGA) As you know the Amiga has multi-tasking built in, so it you can handle a different interface from the one at work, but are used to multi-tasking, you are already set. - (ST) UNIX? Today *now* there is a nice PD shell on the ST (gulam) that looks a lot like the unix shell with many of the commands. The editor is emacs-like, and you can pause the editor, escape to the shell, compile a program, then bring the editor back to the fore ground (via "fg" a-la unix). Not multi-tasking. Context switching, but it is the unix look and feel. - Note: Amiga and ST can run MSDOS stuff with appropriate add-on's. ST cam also run MAC stuff with appropriate add-on's. MIDI: ===== The ST came with midi's built in and this has generated a lot of ST midi software. Buy a copy of STart magazine. There are always adds in that artist-oriented magazine for music editors, and multiple other midi programs. I do not know what midi stuff is available on the AMIGA. I think there is a large library of midi software on the PC market. You may wish to look here too... Final suggestions: 1. Get several machine specific magazines on both computers. Try to stay away from those published by the machine manufacture; they tend to be censored and over-hyped: "See how great we are!!!!!!!!". 2. Please try before you buy. - you may hate the feel of the keyboard. *BOTH* good computers, you probably can't go wrong what ever you choose. To be fair, I do not own an Amiga. I own 2 Commodors (the VIC-20 & C64) am the happy owner of 1 Atari (the ST). I will not suggest either computer over the other. That is a personal preference. A choice only you can make. My experience with both companys is about the same. They are probably on a par with the rest of the retail computer industry. -- ---> geoffs@brl.arpa -- ---------------- >From: AmigaIan@cup.portal.com.UUCP Subject: Re: 500 or 2000 ? >My next question is this: >should I buy an amiga 500 or an amiga 2000? >Can someone give me the pro's and con's of the two machines? Ok, let me give it a try, The 2000 comes with 512K more than the 500 but I have seen 512K expansion for the 500 priced under $150. You can have IBM compatibility with the 2000 but not with the 500. The 2000 costs more $$$ but it is a little less expensive to expand. The 2000 is bigger than the 500. If you expand with the 500 you need alot of space. The 500 is about $700 cheaper if you get a 1 meg 500. The 2000 is now selling for $1499. The 500 is now selling for $649. Did I miss anything? I believe those are all the diffrences. Hope I made things easier rather than harder. Ian_Matthew_Smith@cup.portal.com -- Joe Smith (408)922-6220 | SMTP: JMS@F74.TYMNET.COM or jms@tymix.tymnet.com McDonnell Douglas FSCO | UUCP: ...!{ames,pyramid}!oliveb!tymix!tardis!jms PO Box 49019, MS-D21 | PDP-10 support: My car's license plate is "POPJ P," San Jose, CA 95161-9019 | narrator.device: "I didn't say that, my Amiga did!"