Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bnr-fos!bmers58!davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Predestination Message-ID: Date: 1 Sep 89 07:05:14 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada Lines: 39 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article jdd@db.toronto.edu (John DiMarco) writes: >God predestines his elect by giving them great gifts of his grace. Only those >whom God has chosen receive these graces. But nowhere in scripture does it say >that God predestines some to receive no grace at all; i.e. to perish in >hellfire. He does harden hearts, but he doesn't petrify them. I am going to give you a few Scriptures to think about. I shall withold my opinions on exactly what these Scriptures mean and trust that the Word of God can speak for itself. 1 Peter 2:7-8 says "Unto you therefore which believe {he is} precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, {even to them} which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.". Notice the phrase "whereunto also they were appointed". Jude 4 says "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.". Notice the phrase "who were before ordained of old to this condemnation". Romans 9:18-23 says "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will {have mercy}, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed {it}, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? {What} if God, willing to show {his} wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,". Dave Mielke, 613-726-0014 856 Grenon Avenue Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K2B 6G3