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Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!sco!jeffr
From: jeffr@sco.COM (Jeff Radick)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip.ibmpc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Query on NetBIOS on TCP/IP
Summary: Which protocol is using the other?
Keywords: TCP/IP NetBIOS
Message-ID: <3302@scolex.sco.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 89 20:20:45 GMT
References: <12445@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU>
Reply-To: jeffr@sco.COM (Jeff Radick)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Lines: 58

In article <12445@orstcs.CS.ORST.EDU> harish@guille.ECE.ORST.EDU (Harish Pillay) writes:
+The RFCs 1001 and 1002 define using TCP/IP over NetBIOS systems.  After
+reading the RFCs, I'm confused over one point. Assuming an implementation 
+of TCP/IP over NetBIOS, can a user on a Unix box say ftp into the PC (assuming 
+a ftp server is running in the PC)?  My understanding is that the user on the 
+Unix box has to have a NetBIOS-specific TCP/IP implementation.  Is that right?
+If not, it is unclear to me how that user can ftp from the pc.  Conversely, can
+we ftp etc from the same PC to other Unix boxes who *don't* have the NetBIOS 
+stuff?  I think I'm missing something here and would appreciate any hints and 
+pointers.  I hope this is not a RTFM-type of question :-).

You are confused.  RFCs 1001 and 1002 define an standardized way for
systems to provide the NetBIOS services on top of TCP/IP, not the
other way around.  RFC 1001 defines general concepts about how this
works, and RFC1002 defines the protocol to be used between the machines
providing this service.

Thus a system that has this service has TCP/IP as an underlying mechanism
in the same way TCP/IP is there as an underlying mechanism for, say,
FTP.  If your TCP/IP software has these other utilties then the NetBIOS
stuff will appear essentially to be just another service like FTP or
TELNET, except that NetBIOS uses both TCP and UDP in a certain coordinated
way as defined in the RFCs.  (This is an oversimplification, but essentially
correct.)  NetBIOS therefore should not interfere with the operation of
FTP or any of your other ordinary TCP/IP-related services, except perhaps
by virtue of resource usage, which is completely dependent upon implementation
and system usage.

More particularly in response to your question, FTP on a system with
NetBIOS will operate exactly like FTP on a system without NetBIOS,
and interoperability should not be a problem.

There are, I believe, TCP/IP implementations
on top of NetBIOS, but this is not what these RFCs are about, and in my
opinion such an idea is mostly bogus since NetBIOS presumes the existence
of some underlying mechanism such as TCP/IP for conveying information
between systems, so that putting TCP/IP on top of that would be largely
redundant if not completely bizarre.

+
+While on the same subject, is there any PD implementations of TCP/IP over
+NetBIOS systems?
+
+ ...

Assuming what you mean is NetBIOS over TCP/IP and not vice versa:
unfortunately I don't know the answer to this question.  I know it has
been asked before in this newsgroup, perhaps one of the people who
has gotten a response (or a lack thereof) can answer.

Of course I should mention that SCO's TCP/IP product (not the so-called
controlled release), as well as others, such as Excelan's, includes
a NetBIOS module as part of the standard product.  If you are not using
one of these then of course you will want a PD implementation.

Jeff Radick
The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
jeffr@sco.COM or ucscc!sco!jeffr or uunet!sco!jeffr or just sco!jeffr