Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!apple!agate!ucbvax!hoptoad!tim From: tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer Subject: Re: The Great Standard Yes/No/Cancel Alert Contest Message-ID: <8514@hoptoad.uucp> Date: 14 Sep 89 02:22:10 GMT References: <24871@santra.UUCP> <8461@hoptoad.uucp> <25123@santra.UUCP> <8502@hoptoad.uucp> <1370@speedy.mcnc.org> <8508@hoptoad.uucp> <1374@speedy.mcnc.org> Reply-To: tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) Organization: Eclectic Software, San Francisco Lines: 57 In article <1370@speedy.mcnc.org> kk@mcnc.org.UUCP (Kris Kozminski) writes: >BTW, I find it useful to include one more button: 'save as', for those >occasions whent quitting is done in panic and the user doesn't really want >to overwrite an existing file but would like to save the results anyway. In article <8508@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >Um, a good idea, but again, what's really important in the standardization >is that the buttons be in the proper relative positions (...) If you start >moving the buttons around in this standard alert then you risk confusing >the user. Still, I can't deny that your feature is a good one; I'm just >wondering how to put it in without disrupting the dialog's appearance. In article <1374@speedy.mcnc.org> kk@mcnc.org.UUCP (Krzysztof Kozminski) writes: >Easy: the recommended layout is: Many programs, however, use: > > Save/Yes Save/Yes > Cancel > Discard/No Discard/No Cancel Not true. Check IM IV-10,11. The "No" and "Cancel" buttons are supposed to be in the same row, with the same top and bottom coordinates. What you have as "many programs use" is standard; what you have as "the recommended layout" is nonstandard. >Quite a number use: Save/Yes Discard/No Cancel in a single row, so the >standard is not that standard anyway ... I've just checked 5 popular >programs and found 4 different appearances of the supposedly standard >alert. The 2 alerts that appeared the same showed up in different >places on the screen, so perhaps they should not count as identical. >This much for the standard. Which is A Bad Thing. I don't buy this "verybody else does it" argument. >Anyway, I moved the 'Cancel' button a couple pixels down wrt the recommended >layout and have this: > > Save Save as > > Discard Cancel Which changes the appearance of the dialog! Suddenly you have a dialog which looks completely different from everyone else's. You haven't answered my objection at all. The user must stop and scratch her head. If there's some comprehension problem here, let me explain. The point is that this is a very important question; the answer, if wrong, will lead to major user frustration. When I look at a standard dialog with the prescribed Yes, No, and Cancel buttons in the correct positions, I know immediately which button to push. I don't have to worry about. Any deviation in the button positions forces me to stop and think "OK, is this what I want to do, or that, and why has this programmer got his head up his ass anyway?" and generally increases my anxiety level. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com "Philosophy is the talk on a cereal box Religion is the smile on a dog" -- Edie Brickell, "What I Am"