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From: coolidge@brutus.cs.uiuc.edu (John Coolidge)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.misc,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Who's Messing With The Usenet ?
Keywords: article, duplication, monkey business
Message-ID: <1989Sep16.061700.4572@brutus.cs.uiuc.edu>
Date: 16 Sep 89 06:17:00 GMT
References: <2056@avsd.UUCP>
Sender: news@brutus.cs.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: coolidge@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: U of Illinois, CS Dept., Systems Research Group
Lines: 46

childers@avsd.UUCP (Richard Childers) writes:
>	[finds some duplicate articles, apparently with the same messageid]
>	239:Message-ID: <11519@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
>	241:Message-ID: <11519@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
>	[and checks the path]
>	239:Path: avsd!vixie!decwrl!wuarchive!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!orand
>	241:Path: avsd!octopus!sts!claris!apple!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!...
>		...wuarchive!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!orand

>Now we have some real data. There are three machines which are found in
>both "Path:" fields. Two of them are the source and the destination. The
>third is "wuarchive".

>Now, at this point it would normally be appropriate to run, screaming
>accusations all the way, straight to the administration of "wuarchive",
>all self-righteous as all get-out, demanding to know what they are doing.

Wouldn't be appropriate, and it would be wrong. I've checked on both
wuarchive (where I'm a guest) and brutus (which I run) and we each have
only one copy of the offending article, with (as best as I can tell)
no offensive control characters or any such sillyness.

If there's a Sinister Villain (TM) trashing Message-ID's out there,
it's not wuarchive or brutus. I sincerely doubt it's apple or decwrl
either. Take a good look at the Message-ID's in question. If there
are any control characters or other real differences, one of the
feed sites beyond wuarchive (239) or brutus (241) is causing problems.
If not, your news is messed up and needs an overhaul, since you should
never have two articles with the same Message-ID. Normal duplicates are
caused by old news being resent after the old Message-ID's have been
expired. These, clearly, are not normal duplicates.

One potential news problem that just might do this (I'm insufficiently
acquainted with the internal arcana to be sure) would be the case where
the history file can't be appended to (disk full, maybe?). In that case,
I could imagine news dropping the Message-ID on the floor, then accepting
the same id later. Doesn't seem likely to me (well, *I'D* check for it
when writing a news :-) ), but maybe...

--John

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John L. Coolidge     Internet:coolidge@cs.uiuc.edu   UUCP:uiucdcs!coolidge
Of course I don't speak for the U of I (or anyone else except myself)
Copyright 1989 John L. Coolidge. Copying allowed if (and only if) attributed.
You may redistribute this article if and only if your recipients may as well.