Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: horton@b11.ingr.com (Mac Horton) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Who do you say Christ is? (and other questions) Message-ID: Date: 23 Sep 89 07:37:35 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Intergraph, Deep in the Heart of Dixie Lines: 62 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article rock@sun.com (Bill Petro) writes: [long very well-done summary of the development of Christological doctrine] This was a great summary, which I've saved as a handy reference (I never *can* remember what Apollinarianism is). But you go rather wildly wrong at the end in describing Catholic teachings. Our moderator summed up the mistakes well enough, but I'd like to expand a couple of points. >What is the "Ex opere operato" faith of the Roman Church? It >is the idea that grace comes to you by the performing of certain >sacraments. The sacraments are instruments by which one can always count on receiving grace (IF one is disposed to receive it) but by no means the only instruments. The grace comes to the recipient, not to the performer. Though the grace is always present if the sacrament is validly administered--this is what "ex opere operato" means--it may not have its effect if the recipient is in one way or another not disposed to receive it, as for instance by being in a state of serious sin. >There are seven of them, but two of them cancel each other >out, marriage and celibacy, as it seems that you can't be in both of >these states. Celibacy is not a sacrament. Ordination to the priesthood is, and I think that's what you mean, because most priests are required to be celibate. The celibacy is only a rule of discipline, and has nothing to do with the sacrament as such. > As you perform the sacraments you accrue merit, and when >you have acrrued enough merit you may get yourself out of Purgatory, >that interim waiting state, into Heaven itself. So Heaven is both >earned and given. It is not free grace, it is merited. So by the >Roman system you merit the merit of Christ by your meritorius good >works. Grace is a free gift of God and salvation always starts with it. Nothing could be more alien to the Catholic mind than the notion that you can save yourself. The sacraments don't give merit, they provide access to grace, and by means of that grace one gains the power to become holy. It is only at that point that "merit" comes into the picture. In a sense one can be said to "merit" heaven, but only after God has reached down with his grace, and one has responded to that grace. Well, I'm repeating the moderator, so that's enough. I can see why there is confusion on this issue as the doctrine is easily caricatured or misunderstood, even by Catholics, into something like what you say. But the official teachings of the Church are pretty clear, especially post-Reformation, when the whole matter became such an important issue. -- Mac Horton @ Intergraph | horton@ingr.COM | ..uunet!ingr!horton -- A love that's real will not fade away. --Petty/Hardin (via Buddy Holly)