Xref: utzoo comp.sw.components:316 comp.software-eng:2133
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!texbell!vector!attctc!phil
From: phil@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (Phil Meyer)
Newsgroups: comp.sw.components,comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: Schedule and budget are secondary
Message-ID: <9670@attctc.Dallas.TX.US>
Date: 11 Oct 89 22:10:39 GMT
References: <16187@vail.ICO.ISC.COM> <6742@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Reply-To: phil@attctc.Dallas.TX.US (Phil Meyer)
Followup-To: comp.sw.components
Organization: The Unix(R) Connection BBS, Dallas, Tx
Lines: 34

In article <6742@hubcap.clemson.edu> billwolf%hazel.cs.clemson.edu@hubcap.clemson.edu writes:
>From rcd@ico.ISC.COM (Dick Dunn):
>
>    This depends upon whether the product is implemented by hackers
>    or by professionals.

Haven't we had the hacker vs. professional wars before?  I am reminded of the
fortune "A poor workman blames his tools".  It is also a poor workman who
must blame tools for other's inferior workmanship.  This next statement
suggests that you are not professional if you do not use CASE tools.  Pretty
silly.  Most developers are still eyeing CASE.

>    A professional will meet cost and schedule
>    constraints by using CASE tools, advanced programming languages,
>    and so on, using overtime as the last resort.

This last line is the killer.  If you don't work your butt off, you don't
work for me!  If the job needs doing, you stay 'till it's done.  What is this?
Bankers ethics in the computer center?  Forget it!

>    Dick's particular environment is one in which operating system 
>    software is being developed in C, a double whammy as far as a 
>    well-established tradition of hacking is concerned.  In such an
>    environment, great efforts must be taken on the part of management
>    to ensure the existence of a proper software engineering orientation.

This statement applies to ANY environment.  It may be true that sloppy
programmers working in a CASE environment can produce better code than
without CASE, but steps must still be taken to insure that guys like you who
won't stay past quitting time, don't just throw stuff together!

This isn't really a flame, I was just suprised to see stuff like this in
a news group where I'm certain that most participants dream of the day
when they can work 'regular' hours.