Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!usc!henry.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news
From: dave@jplopto.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Dave Hayes)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo
Subject: Re:  The deafening silence
Summary: More on that silence (Long...but worth it!)
Message-ID: <1989Oct8.095232.29536@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>
Date: 8 Oct 89 09:52:32 GMT
References: <8910072136.AA02071@umix.cc.umich.edu>
Reply-To: dave%jplopto@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Lines: 60

In article <8910072136.AA02071@umix.cc.umich.edu> derstad@CIM-VAX.HONEYWELL.COM ("DAVE ERSTAD") writes:
>As far as I'm aware, those folks are all interacting with this
>news group in an unofficial capacity.  Thus, when I get a response from
>a system programmer at Apollo, I regard that as a privilege, not a right.
That's very good. I can respect that viewpoint, even though it differs
from mine. Keep in mind it is really difficult to remember that when you are 
up to your whatever in system regeneration of other undocumented behavior
and you are behind schedule. But...point well taken, for surely no one is
forced to be on the net. 

Even looking at that particular point with more scrutiny, I would also tend
to think that being able to communicate directly with users via a forum like
this is a privilege of another sort. However, mutual respect is still a
voluntary thing. The *real* meat of my gripe is that we are CUSTOMERS, yet
we are not really treated like customers ought to be treated. The "right"
we have (if any can be so forcibly imposed) is to be able to use the tools
and systems that we purchase. In my opinion that also means we have the 
right to timely and informative answers to any questions or problems that 
interfere with our ability to use our systems. 

Perhaps my misconception is that I do not make any distinction between 
different vehicles of communication...besides, what better place to alleviate 
some of the pressure on their customer service then the net?
 
>I appreciate the fact they spend time to help us out, and don't expect them
>to solve all of our problems.
I appreciate that too, damned good of those brave souls who monitor the net
and help us poor folk out from time to time. 
 
Alas, unlike you, I am hoplessly idealistic about responses being able
to solve problems. 

>One might argue that Apollo should have someone officially monitor the group,
>but that's not necessarily better than sending E-Mail APRs directly to
>Apollo since probably the same group of people would handle it (although
>it sure wouldn't hurt).
Really? How does one send E-MAIL APR's? Is that kind of mechanism set up?

>I'd rather see Apollo spend effort and money improving the customer service
>group on hotline. 
Actually, there is better bandwidth for that here on the net or through 
E-MAIL. Phone calls take up much more "real-time" than sending an E-MAIL
message, wouldn't you agree?  

>In summary:
Ok..I can do that too...good idea!

>   o  I personally consider this newsgroup more of a user forum, rather
>      than a vehicle for communication with Apollo
What better place to communicate to Apollo than a user forum?

>   o  The fact that there are questions unanswered should reflect on 
>      Apollo's customer service, rather than this newsgroup.  What
>      experiences do other have?
It should reflect upon Apollo's communication skills as a company. I'd 
say that a lot of the blame goes to Customer Service, but with proper
use of available resources...a lot of good could happen! 

>Dave Erstad
Dave Hayes