Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wuarchive!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!ginosko!uunet!nuchat!seven
From: seven@nuchat.UUCP (David Paulsen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: More hard disk madness (was Re: CLEAR THINGS)
Summary: Just tossing out some idears...
Message-ID: <15457@nuchat.UUCP>
Date: 9 Oct 89 07:28:43 GMT
References: <89100603481468@masnet.uucp>
Reply-To: seven@nuchat.UUCP (David Paulsen)
Organization: Crazy Dave's Computer Emporium, Houston
Lines: 73

In article <89100603481468@masnet.uucp> iain.bennett@canremote.uucp (IAIN BENNETT) writes:
>I'm here again to clear things /up again!
> 
>The 64 wwas not designed to be used with a hard drive~x_S.  It never
>even was intended for the 1581, but  the '81 was made...shows how
>brainy_ commoxDore is!

True, the 64 was not designed to be used with a hard drive; but then
neither was it designed to address more than 64K of RAM, use any of
the faster IEEE peripherals, drive MIDI synthesizers or burn eproms..
yet it does all of these things and countless more.  When the 64 was
conceived, even "real" personal computers rarely had hard drives.

I think the 64 can make good use of a hard disk, even if it was
interfaced through the serial port.  As for the 1581 disk drive,
I own two of them.. both happily plugged into my 64.

>sorry for the line noise.
> 
>Now for hard drives.  the 64 is too slow in my opinion1yG.  Also adding
>an IBM hard drive, you would have to fooormat in special ways.  Do you
>unxBerstand what I'm getting at?

A hard disk is a peripheral, to be used by the computer... not the other
way around.  So WHAT if the disk drive is capable of delivering data
at 4 or 8 times the bus speed of my Commodore 64?  This is immaterial.

Even clone computers do not speak directly to their hard drives.  They
use controller cards, buffers, caches.. all the things found (in a *much*
tinier form :-) inside the 1541.  What I propose is taking some of that
existing 8-bit IBM-PC technology and putting it to work -- cheap -- for
the 64.  "Formatting" is not the issue.  I don't expect to be able to
boot Disk Doctor, nor do I need Fastload to work.  As far as low-level
formatting goes, we can always format the beastie on an IBM, then
unship it for use in the 64 system.  

Various possibilities include:

1. Interface an XT 8-bit hard disk controller to the user port.  

2. Build a cable from the CBM serial [pseudo-IEEE] port to the COM1
   port on an IBM-XT clone.  Have the "big" computer pretend to be
   a 1541, and simulate Commodore DOS.  Set up sub-directories on
   the hard drive for Pac-Man and Paperclip64.  (Eventually get the
   8088/1541-emulation software down to a TSR, so you can run it as
   a background task all the time.)

3. Canibalize a 64; turn it into a dedicated hard drive controller.
   (Why not?  8-bit user port, 64K ram, 6502-ish processor.. should
   make a dandy controller.  Write the DOS in BASIC!)  Interface the
   modified C64 to another C64 via their CBM serial ports.

4. Modify a 1764 REU cartridge so that some of the external memory
   is shared by the hard disk controller.  Copy data into the
   shared memory, swap it into the 64's memory map at blinding
   speed.

While I applaud the Total Concept embraced by the Xetec hard drive
systems, I cringe at their prices.  I don't NEED 100% compatibility
or blinding speed... I have my 1541 for the former, and an REU for
the latter.  

> %dE
>
> * QNet 1.04a1: MCS BBS, Milton, On., Canada, (416)878-5935 (19200 HST)

David

-- 
David Paulsen    ..uunet!nuchat!seven  ||| The Curiosity Shop BBS, 713/488-7836
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