Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ames!henry.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!cit-vax!tybalt.caltech.edu!orchard
From: orchard@tybalt.caltech.edu (John Orchard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: anti-educational discount legislati
Message-ID: <12176@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu>
Date: 7 Oct 89 07:07:45 GMT
References: <8400172@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Sender: news@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu
Reply-To: orchard@tybalt.caltech.edu.UUCP (John Orchard)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Lines: 91

In article <8400172@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>
>Re:  Apple's appeal to stop legislation against student-discount pricing.
>
>Don't you hate one-dimensional slanted arguments?
>
>A primary reasons for the discount program is that computers are like
>cocaine -- once someone is hooked on a brand [e.g. macintosh], they
>will continue to be a "user" (computer abuser?) for the rest of their
>lives.
>
>The student discount program, in the long run, is a big moneymaker for
>Apple.  In fact, selling gobs of computer systems to universities has
>always been a financial win for computer manufacturers (DEC preceded
>Apple in this respect).
>
>I can see why Apple opposes this legislation.
>Don Gillies


First off, I'd like to state that in no way is this intended to be a 
flame. This is intended in good will in the spirit of mature discussion.


Obviously you are an opponent of educational sales. Are you, also, as 
your posting suggests, an opponent of Apple? If you are, why are you 
posting to comp.sys.mac? If you are not an opponent of Apple, your 
posting makes it sound as if you are.

Well, regardless of your feelings about Apple, your feelings about 
educational discounts are clearly antagonistic. Since many other brands 
of computers are sold at educational discounts (NeXT, IBM, Compaq, GRiD 
at my school) your enmity probably applies to these manufacturers as 
well. But let's concentrate on Apple, since this is about Apple's 
efforts to oppose the legislation.

You oppose educational discounts. Why? You are correct that Apple's 
motives are at least a large part financial, and that buying a computer 
is akin to a narcotic in that it often (but not exclusively) leads to 
the user sticking with that manufacturer later on. I fail to see what's 
wrong with that. It is a standard practice of business. It's the 
reasoning behind virtually every promotion ever conducted in business. 
Do you find fault with the practice of temporary discounting in general? 
If so, your targets should be every business in America, rather than 
merely Apple's educational discounting program.

Perhaps that is not your reasoning for your dislike of the educational 
discount program. Perhaps you are rather a supporter of the computer 
dealer network, and see the educational sales cutting into the dealer 
sales. My responses are these: a) the educational sales should _benefit_ 
the dealers in the long run because those students who buy a Macintosh 
(or a PS/2, or whatever) at school will probably only be able to buy a 
single system, and will only be at school for a limited number of years. 
After a few years out of school, they will want a new machine, they are 
"hooked" on a particular machine because of the educational program, and 
where do they go to buy their new machine? Why the dealers, of course. 
Don't forget the "word of mouth" among the student's friends and family 
who want a computer but don't go to a college. They also must go to a 
dealer to buy. Also, remember that many students would never had 
purchased a system at all had they not had a discount at school. Thus 
those dealers might never have gotten business from those people.

Reason b) If the dealers are so worried about the educational discounts 
cutting into their sales, perhaps they could make their prices more 
attractive. I'm sure that few dealers can handle the 40% discount of 
educational sales, but they can come close, and offer better service. 
The large chain dealers (who are most likely the powers behind this 
legislation) get up to 60% discounts from the manufacturers, go to full 
mark-up and then some, and, at least the dealers I've dealt with, offer 
little to no knowledge or assistance. I used to work for a computer 
peripherals company in Technical Support and I used to talk to 20-30 
dealers' "technical representatives" a day who were not bright enough to 
read the manuals provided them. As you can probably tell, I have great 
disdain for those dealers out there that have former stereo salesmen who 
know nothing about computers trying to sell you a machine that's at 120% 
suggested retail. And I have nothing but respect for those few retailers 
out there who offer true service and real discounts.

Perhaps you know all this and don't care. Perhaps you actually agree 
with me but posted in the spirit of a devil's advocate. Perhaps I 
changed your mind just a little bit. I don't know. But I am very 
concerned about the actions that a few short-sighted dealer-types have 
taken to restrict our rights to buy from whom we want.

Yes, Apple's letter was very one-sided. But maybe there is cause for 
concern. I know I am going to look into this and try to find out both 
sides.


John Orchard
orchard@tybalt.caltech.edu