Xref: utzoo alt.aquaria:4137 news.groups:13103
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!rutgers!att!cbnewsd!popeye
From: popeye@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (ken.a.irwin)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,news.groups
Subject: Re: ****   Call for Discussion  --  Creation of Sci.Aquaria   ****
Message-ID: <2287@cbnewsd.ATT.COM>
Date: 10 Oct 89 18:56:16 GMT
References: <2213@cbnewsd.ATT.COM > <3182@quanta.eng.ohio-state.edu > <152@ark1.nswc.navy.mil >
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 74

In article <152@ark1.nswc.navy.mil >, dsill@ark1.nswc.navy.mil (Dave Sill) writes:
 > In article <2213@cbnewsd.ATT.COM >, popeye@cbnewsd.ATT.COM (ken.a.irwin) writes:
 >  > Aquariums don't house pets they house a simulated aquatic environment,
 >  > fish happen to be part of that environment.
 > 
 > And where do the unwashed masses buy their self-constained artificial
 > aquatic environments?  Probably 90% use *pet* shops exclusively, but
 > certainly a majority.  Look up "Aquariums" in your yellow pages, then
 > look up "Pets".  In my phone book there's one entry under Aquariums,
 > and it's a *pet shop*.

I don't know about there but in the Chicago area the "Aquarium" listings are
usually distributors, leasing agents, and commercial services (ie. cleaning
the tank in some executives office). The Chicago Consumer Yellow pages lists
the more serious ornamental fisheries under "Tropical Fish". A lot of the 
"pet shops" around here have only token stock in dog and cat toys and 
specialize in aquaria, I can think of several that have over 80% of their
floor space dedicated to aquaria.
  
 >  > ... An aquaria group is unrelated [to rec.pets] and
 >  > should not be the first to be a sub-group. Sub-groups should be a
 >  > reorganization of the parent group, not an unrelated subject.
 > 
 > Sez who?  There's a clear relationship between pets and aquaria, and
 > the group would fit well under rec.pets.

Even IF you view the animals in an aquarium as pets (which I don't) it seems to
me that when more attention in the hobby is focused on creating the environment
than on the inhabitants of that environment, it's hard for me to understand why
you would name the group after the lesser aspect.
  
 >  > Aquarium related topics generate very little traffic and are not an
 >  > outgrowth of rec.pets. By this logic rec.motorcycles would be 
 >  > rec.autos.motorcycles (ie. motorcycles are self motavating).
 > 
 > The relationship between cars and motorcycles is not nearly as strong
 > as that between pets and aquaria.  How many pet shops do you know of
 > that *don't* sell aquaria, fish, and other related paraphernalia?  How
 > many car dealerships sell MC's too?

Big ticket items such as motorcycles and cars have elaborate dealer networks,
by the same token how many car dealerships carry directly competitive brands?
(as in Ford/Chevy, Mercury/Buick, Lincoln/Cadilac, Toyota/Nissan) 

I don't get this reasoning, almost all sporting goods stores carry fishing
tackle, so if alt.fishing petitions for a mainstream group will you argue that
it should be grouped with basketball and football under rec.sport? And since
most woodworking tools come from places that cater to the home building trade
(harware stores, contractor tool distributors, home improvement) should 
rec.woodworking really be misc.consumers.house.woodworking? 
  
 >  > rec.pets.fish (Discussions about pet fish named Eric)
 >  > 	(kinda leaves out filtration, tanks, plants and inverts)
 > 
 > No it doesn't, it just says the *primary focus* of the group is
 > fishkeeping as a hobby.  Nobody's going to try to exclude any topic
 > relevant to the subject, as the above examples obviously are.

The primary focus of the hobby is the tank and its environment, the fish are
a major element, but this is like changing misc.consumers.house to a soc.
group.
  
 > Dave Sill (dsill@relay.nswc.navy.mil)





Ken A. Irwin
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Indian Hill 6G410
Naperville, Illinois
(312) 979-4578
...!ihlpa!kai