Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!watmath!looking!brad
From: brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: These stubborn group champions
Message-ID: <34029@looking.on.ca>
Date: 16 Oct 89 02:30:31 GMT
References: <8910132350.AA08591@helios.enea.se> <35637@apple.Apple.COM> <33610@looking.on.ca> <27837@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu>
Reply-To: brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton)
Organization: Looking Glass Software Ltd.
Lines: 38
Class: rebuttal

In article <27837@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu> dave@cogsci.indiana.edu (David Chalmers) writes:
>In practice, there's a huge problem.  There are two key words, one hyphenated:
>
>  SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY.
>
>It's not just that hierarchy is a function of quality, as it should be. 
>Quality is also a function of hierarchy.  Precisely because of the system,
>certain levels of discussion are regarded as "appropriate" for certain
>hierarchies.

I am sorry, but while this idea sounds intuitive, an actual examination of
net history shows little evidence for it.   The "talk" groups are noisy,
not because they are in talk, but because they were put there to be noisy.

Almost all of them were created in the "net" hierarchy, which had no
stigma, and moved into the talk hierarchy later.  So it's simply false to
claim that the "talk" hierarchy is what makes them noisy.

Nor do I note any particular difference in character amongst the newly
created groups added to hierarchies.  Sci.skeptic is plenty noisy, as
has been noted, in good old "sci."   I am hard pressed to come up with
any group that I feel would have a different character in a different
hierarchy.

In fact, the only difference I can imagine, were (to pick a random example) a
rec group placed in a sci hierarchy would be flamers shouting, "Hey, this
is a sci group, keep your ignorant opinions out of this group!" endlessly.

The only counter case I can think of off the top of my head is
talk.religion.computers, which was deliberately created to be a flamefest
at its "best."

The hierarchy just doesn't matter.  These days, it only exists to allow
a small group of care-less net admins to edit their sys files easily.
It's just not worth the hassle.

-- 
Brad Templeton, ClariNet Communications Corp. -- Waterloo, Ontario 519/884-7473