Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!ginosko!usc!ucla-cs!uci-ics!tittle
From: gazit@lear.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Government Control and EEO (Was Re: Affirmative Action)
Summary: Read history books, they are more realistic than Ayn Rand's books.
Message-ID: <8910060758.AA03179@duke.cs.duke.edu>
Date: 7 Oct 89 23:32:09 GMT
References: <15685@duke.cs.duke.edu> <1989Sep30.185858.22432@rpi.edu>
Sender: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle)
Reply-To: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel)
Organization: The Piranha Club
Lines: 74
Approved: tittle@ics.uci.edu


In article <1989Sep30.185858.22432@rpi.edu> (Keith D. Weiner) writes:

>#As a society we decided to put limits on companies and force them to
>If ever there was a more blatant example of collectivism, I would be hard
>pressed to find it.  "society"?  "we"?  "force"?  Sounds like the general idea
>is that individuals do not have the "right" to live life for themselves,

I talked about *companies*.  When these companies cut the rights of
the individuals, these individuals fight back.  Take a look in
California's latest voters' revolt (against the insurance companies)
if you need an example from my universe.

>assumption about your argument is not correct, then please explain to me the
>word "force" and what ends would justify such means. Your example of the 
>anti-trust laws is incorrect. Companies may NOT hire the best, because they
>must worry about quotas. 

Try to talk with women who were in the job market before 1964.  They
were told that they would not be hired because they were *women*.
Period.  I agree that the rights of the companies were hurt by the
EEO, that's the price they pay for their discriminatory practices.

>But similarly, companies did not compete (doesn't
>competition mean that all competitors are FREE to act?) and cannot compete
>under duress. The anti-trust laws are the most disasterous form of gov't
>control and of collectivism that exist in the US so far.  

Let see.  Before the anti trust all the railroad companies decided
between themselves about a fixed price and shared the profit by an
agreed in advance plan (yes, I know that Ayn Rand described a
situation where the bad guys tried to loot the good guys.  I prefer to
talk about reality).  *Big* businesses could get a reduction, and so
the small and developing companies helped to finance the giant trusts
(large customers && the railroads trusts).

The law said that every company should *publish* a price table and
follow this table with *all* customers.  They lost some money, and the
privacy of their prices was hurt, and they did not like it.  As far as
I concern these fat companies can take their businesses to some other
place, I'll not be too sorry.

>But such arguments abrogate the entire concept of individual rights.  

What *individual* right did I abrogate?
   
>To sit here and argue
>the "practical" of whether a gun should be used for this or that range-of-the-
>moment practical consideration, is to concede that individual rights do not
>exist, and that the purpose of the gov't is to do whatever any majority thinks
>will benefit it for any immediate moment. Think about the profound difference
>between the two.

The *individual* rights are protected by the Constitution.  The rights
of companies to harass the public and/or the competitors in order to
maximize their profit are not protected.

>"An elective tyranny is NOT what we fought this war for." - T Jefferson

Do you prefer a non-elective tyranny by all the trust's chairmen?

As far as I'm concerned they can move to Atlantis and wait for the
world to break down.  What they would see is a lot of small companies
that are poor enough to try to develop the best product, and don't
have enough money to discriminate.

Homework assignment:
What are the differences between Hank Rearden and A. Carnegie?
Which one of them is a more realistic character, and why?

Hillel                                              gazit@cs.duke.edu

he was jeopardizing his traditional rights of freedom and independence by
daring to use them --- Milo to Yossarian